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Author Topic: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread  (Read 1173133 times)

Offline pixelgeek

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11265 on: September 08, 2020, 01:17:38 PM »
You uncivilised heathen! One does not simply roll dice on the tabletop anymore! One has to have a dice tray and roll like a civilised man using a dice cup...

Actually I think rolling a mitt full of those dice on a table might be ine of the Aelves new Endless Spells.

Offline Ray Rivers

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11266 on: September 08, 2020, 02:06:31 PM »
IMO, if you have to roll more than 2 dice... your rules suck.  ;)

Beer and pretzels, baby!  :D

Offline Andrew_McGuire

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11267 on: September 08, 2020, 03:41:10 PM »
The other thing I don't get about them is the AoS can require huge numbers of dice. How are you going to roll more than a few of these at a time?

I hadn't thought of that, but a few possibilities spring to mind. One is a massive glove - adorned with the appropriate faction symbols, of course - which permit holding and rolling the requisite number of dice into the tray, which will vaguely resemble a baseball catcher's mitt, functionally speaking, though of course the prominent symbols will prevent anyone from making such a fatuous observation. Depending on the space and personnel available, one might have to nominate a fellow player, or non-playing friend or family member, as 'catcher'. Alternatively, the 'glove' and 'mitt' might, if made of sufficiently sturdy material, interlock, thus becoming a large shaker; once sufficiently shaken it will be placed in such a way - possibly incorporating a fold-out mechanism - as to allow all the dice to face upwards and reveal the scores when the top half (glove) is removed from the bottom (mitt).

Another is to use a spring-operated dice-thrower to project the dice onto an large tray (both naturally bearing appropriate faction symbols and legal text threatening action against anyone who tries to copy the idea). This might require some brainstorming, particularly from a health and safety perspective, though if the dice are projected perpendicularly with sufficient force, the tray might be replaced by a double-sided adhesive sheet attached to a ceiling, also functioning as flypaper. (Replacements will, of course, be available, as will a tool for removing the dice once the scores have been read from below).

I'm sure more imaginative minds than mine will produce further, possibly superior, ideas than the above.

Offline Tactalvanic

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11268 on: September 08, 2020, 10:02:45 PM »

Pish, simple, GW  Galvanized dustbins of dice. skirmish games, so you only need a small area of table for miniatures, frees up the rest of the room  to roll your dustbin of dice.

Of course all suitably designed with your chosen faction/team/army details on your bin.

Has to be galvanised, as plastic bins won't make the right noise when you shake them...

Think of the workout and excercise your going to get to.

Ok smaller less serious games you can get a cheap plastic bucket but metal would still be better of course.

Offline YPU

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11269 on: September 09, 2020, 10:59:26 AM »
I've been diving into any and all 6mm sci-fi rules I can find of late, and while I've also always mocked the buckets of dice, I'm starting to realise that it does allow for faster play than most other systems. It feels very inelegant but it's so easy it's hard to cock up, and with 3-4 different colours of dice at your disposal, you can roll for multiple weapons in a unit at once. Compared to systems that require 2d6 per weapon system, or even a combination of various dice up to 5 which you all add together PER WEAPON on a vehicle (looking at you polyversal) gameplay grinds to a halt.

So yeah, buckets of dice, unelegant as a brick to the face, also the simplest solution. KISS in action I guess.
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Offline mcfonz

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11270 on: September 09, 2020, 12:19:24 PM »
Yup. I think the criticism of such a system, not necessarily GW's, is that it then becomes about how many dice you roll rather than rules that make units different, or armies different to play for example.

I suppose I aught to give a very quick review of the first game I played.

Necrons Vs Tyranids 1000pts / 50PL.

My opponent took to the field with nothing but the Necron force from the Indomitus set, which is from memory, around 5pts off the limit of 1000 for our game.

I took 997pts of Tyranids using the new points on battlescribe and the 8th edition codex.

Rather than a battle report I'll do a reflection as we didn't really keep track as it was a learning game - neither had played 9th yet and neither of us had played 40k in some time. My last game would have been the last of two or three right at the start of 8th, his was probably longer than that I think.

Necrons: The warriors are fantastic. They get to come back on a 5+ and whilst at first glance that may seem like a 5++ invulnerable save it's actually even better. Their rules mean that you count as outnumbering your opponent on an objective no matter how many Necrons are on it. Mainly because at any moment those 9 lifeless robots can suddenly become reanimated once more.

He took them with the rifles and they did a pretty decent job of softening up incoming gaunt and stealer units. They are aided and abetted by their lord who can confer certain buffs onto them such as bonuses to rolling to hit. The combo works well as whilst he is near to them he cannot be targeted and being near to at least one unit of them means they get buffed. Removing them from those objectives was not going to be easy, and nor was it.

Then throw into the mix the reanimator. At the end of the game we had mixed feelings. It can boost nearby Necron Warriors by making their reanimation roll 4+ instead of 5+ and we didn't really track how much of a difference this made. The fact that I had reduced the unit to around 4 models on two occasions and it was back up to 9 by the time I managed to charge it suggests that it did help. I felt it meant that the one unit it was focused on became rather unstoppable with that and the Overlord's buffs as well.

The Destroyers and Plasmacyte made pretty short work of a unit of genestealers despite being cheaper. However, they suffered pretty badly to Smite and then the combined charge of a carnifex with monstrous crushing claws and the avenging hive tyrant, though it took two rounds of combat to finish them off. If they had attacked softer targets on my left, they probably would have decimated a unit of tyranid warriors as well as a unit of genestealers on that flank. Pretty decent unit but you won't want to stick them out on their own unless you are confident they will smash up a lonely enemy unit isolated from the rest of the army.

That's about as much as I can remember of the Necron reflection. My opponent was toying with the idea of dropping the reanimator for another unit of warriors.

Tyranids: Lesson 1 - do not play 9th like it is 8th. The memory of the slaughter faced at the hands of running across a table only to face overwatch after overwatch clouded my judgement and I was too cautious. That coupled with the way that Command Points used to work and it took me a good three turns for 9th edition to sink in. By then it was too late to overcome the one Victory Point that separated us by the final turn.

I took a Hive Tyrant and a Broodlord for HQ. Two units of 10 genestealers, a unit of 10 hormagants, a unit of three tyranid warriors (one armed with a deathspitter) and a unit of 10 termigants for troops. To give a bit more ummph and something that offered something a little different so I went with a carnifex with monstrous crushing claws and a lictor.

Again, due to being too cautious I ended up running out of time and not deploying my lictor.

So, turn 3 reflections. Spend those CP's. You start with 6 and some very nasty stratagems which can be lethal. One allows you to deploy 5 genestealers within 6" of your Broodlord but 9" away from your enemy at the end of your movement phase. Broodlord advances, uses strategem. The wonderful thing about Broodlords and stealers is that they can charge even if they advanced that turn. So the unit he called in the turn before and him were able to charge and the unit that had just appeared was able to at least try to charge in which they managed.

That's nasty. If that isn't enough there is a similar stratagem that for 1CP allows a unit of termagants to come on at the end of your movement phase as if reinforcements.

So, with more abundance of CP's I now need to also expand the number of miniatures I am taking to games so I can spam them on when I want to.

My overall reflection is that 9th is incredibly more balanced. Combat is no longer a hit and hope - destroy the enemy unit when you charge or face them falling back and shooting you to bits. The nids have their teeth in the game again. However, shooting remains to be rather nasty and thins down enemy numbers as you would expect.

The unit I was most disapointed with was the warriors. I took them as a bit of shooting back up, instantly realised the deathspitter is a waste so will try a venom cannon next time. The other two, along with the termagants had devourers which spit out quite a bit of firepower.

The only major gripe I had was terrain. It certainly works more smoothly, but cover save bonuses are rather redundant. The sorts of units that are really wanting to benefit from cover saves are weak units with poorer armour. Most weapons of S4 or higher carry a -1 AP. So in reality, it's merely giving your grunts their 6+ armour save back. Had they made it a shooting modifier I think it would have been led to it being used in a more thematic way. As it is, I can see more heavily armed units getting more out of it than grunts, which always grinds with me.

Spacemarines, now with two wounds, walking around in armour as good as some vehicles, will know that a weapon with a -2AP will be reduced to a -1AP in cover which reduces them to a 4+ save rather than 3+. In that instance, cover does nothing for a guardsman or any grunt that has a 6+ save. I know this isn't entirely new, but it just irks me a little that the units that really don't need cover and who are often depicted walking around firefights calmly in the open, faithful in their armour, are actually the ones that are better off hugging those ruins. But meh, minor gripe.

Next to the warriors the hormagants were the next underperforming unit. Their 6" consolidate move is great if they make it into combat with the enemy and win. However, they are a bit powderpuff otherwise. They are ok in combat, they are very much combat termagants really. I think they would serve a better purpose in a larger brood, certainly larger numbers in larger pointed games. A good expendable unit.

Overall, after one game, 9th really feels much better. The game was balanced especially taking into account my cautiousness. Had I done what tyranid armies should always do, and just go for it, I would have had far more success. Bearing in mind though, just killing stuff won't win you games. You need to complete your mission objectives. I can't wait for game two. If it's 1000pts I would be tempted to throw in a Tervigon and drop the warriors and lictor and gain another source of termagant spawning... their firepower may lack AP but is numerous! Not to mention, if deployed near an objective, shifting them is going to require some serious extermination pest control.


Offline Condottiere

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11271 on: September 11, 2020, 02:38:56 AM »

I recall the ads, but could never find it, but I think the Hero Gladiators range was creative with the cylindrical dice...




Offline Belligerentparrot

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11272 on: September 12, 2020, 01:24:23 PM »
It is nice to see a Necron enjoying his Lego. Look at the lovely wave he's managed to build.


Actually, there are some seriously cool sculpts being revealed today, but once I saw the Lego I couldn't unsee it.


Offline Dolmot

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11273 on: September 12, 2020, 02:25:16 PM »
Actually, there are some seriously cool sculpts being revealed today, but once I saw the Lego I couldn't unsee it.

Who's going to be the first one to paint it in flat red, blue, yellow and white? lol

Offline Mammoth miniatures

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11274 on: September 12, 2020, 03:30:42 PM »
I quite like the look of that primaris speeder, But It'll look even better with the marines ripped out, the gun turret replaced with a flatbed cargo area, and a crew of sump sea scavengers on top. Give it a beaten up industrial paintjob and it's even better.

Offline pixelgeek

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11275 on: September 12, 2020, 03:32:03 PM »
So yeah, buckets of dice, unelegant as a brick to the face, also the simplest solution. KISS in action I guess.

I don't think it is though. There are a limited number of possible results on a D6 especially in  AoS where you have mods and rerolls. You can average out the results of that many D6 pretty easily without seriously changing the results.

Fewer dice would be simpler even if there are more models in a unit. Look at Oathmark. 20 models in a unit. You roll a max of 5 dice. Quick resolution.

Offline pixelgeek

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11276 on: September 12, 2020, 03:33:03 PM »
I quite like the look of that primaris speeder

Hard to believe it was the same team that made the Mario Cart vehicle

But It'll look even better with the marines ripped out

Well at least that poor deaf SOB in the turret

Offline FramFramson

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11277 on: September 12, 2020, 06:48:11 PM »
Link? Can't find a danged thing on this update y'all are talking about.

Offline zemjw

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11278 on: September 12, 2020, 07:27:11 PM »
If you keep scrolling down the page you get to the shinies - link

All that, and nobody's mentioned the new Primaris Marines ;D - Bandai Marines

Offline Mason

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #11279 on: September 13, 2020, 10:48:10 AM »
I quite like the look of that primaris speeder, But It'll look even better with the marines ripped out, the gun turret replaced with a flatbed cargo area, and a crew of sump sea scavengers on top. Give it a beaten up industrial paintjob and it's even better.

That is a good looking and useful bit of kit, just ripe for conversion.
 8)

That Nurgle Termie is the first of the newer Nurgle figures that I actually like, more reminiscent of the older style without any silly bells or clouds of cartoon smoke coming out of it.


 

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