The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Vermis]

Found this post on belloflostsouls which seems to hint that it is a flop, though they too are finding real data hard to come by. http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/09/rage-of-sigmar-what-the-heck-is-going-on.html

Most instructive is the linked Warseer thread where pretty much every respondent says no one is playing it. Granted, there could be a reporting bias in that, but it's the best we've got in the absence of genuine hard data.

There's also this poll on Dakka. Three quarters of nearly 600 people say it's dropping off. As we're saying, not exactly concrete, or scientific, but telling.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/666438.page

[Chico]

But Oldhammer is going from strength to strength!

So that's good news.

It's also good if you want to buy up old miniatures because the various trading sites (not necessarily eBay) are shifting a lot of old miniatures for very affordable prices. I spend a lot of time idly browsing on the Oldhammer Trading page on FB (and occasionally picking up the odd pretty thing) and the average price is around £3-ish per model. No-one's on there to make a killing and there's a lot of helpful people (some of them the GW 'originals') who can help you source stuff that you're having trouble finding.

Yes sir, in the last year or 2 it's grown alot to where the word ''Oldhammer'' is becoming common useage of various internet forums plus there's at last count 3 articles written about it in Wargaming Mags.

It's sure come along way since it was just a handful of Blogs and the original B.L.O.O.D Forum (Oldhammer Forum Mk1 if you will).

As for the Oldhammer Trade page on FB, I was one of 4 which set that up and admined the page (Along with the main FB Oldhammer group and a number of spin off groups). The point was to have a place away from ebay and build up a common price guide.

[Rhoderic]

plus there's at last count 3 articles written about it in Wargaming Mags.

Out of curiosity, which magazines? I might want to check them out.

[Vermis]

Oh, and...

Does anyone actually have sale figures for Age of Sigmar stuff?

Even the financial reports don't go into that level of detail. I'll guess the next one might see a slight upward spike in GW's sales, which might be attributed to AoS starter sets among other things, but after that... *shrug*

[Chico]

Out of curiosity, which magazines? I might want to check them out.

Off the top of my head (and without hunting  the threads out on the Oldhammer forum/FB Groups) it's 2 in Miniature Wargames & 1 in Wargames Soldiers and Strategy.

[Ray Rivers]

There's also this poll on Dakka. Three quarters of nearly 600 people say it's dropping off. As we're saying, not exactly concrete, or scientific, but telling.

Actually that is probably good news for folks who like AoS. Little by little the Oldhammer folks are losing interest and drifting away.

One of the biggest obstacles IMHO to AoS, in the short term, is all the Oldhammer folks who want AoS to somehow be Oldhammer with new rules. The problem is Oldhammer is not AoS. They are two separate and distinct games with their own fluff. They do not have any points in common.

Because they are two separate and distinct games, GW must build a new player base for the new game and this will take a lot of time. Up to this point and probably well into the foreseeable short term, folks who like AoS have been continually harassed with trolling and griefing from GW haters and Oldhammer diehards on just about every forum there is, including here.

As an example... the folks at Beasts of War were initially quite excited about AoS and planned on doing an extensive series of articles in support of the game. They received so much venom in the comments section that the project was shelved.

That doesn't mean the game has failed. What it does mean is that folks who like AoS have just "gone underground." In my case, I have a Stormcast Eternals thread that I was planning to update as I finished painting my units. I decided to can this project. Doesn't mean I'm not still painting my army or buying more stuff, does mean I'm not going to post anymore photos of my minis.

Just fed up with all the griefing and trolling...

[Chico]

Actually that is probably good news for folks who like AoS. Little by little the Oldhammer folks are losing interest and drifting away.

One of the biggest obstacles IMHO to AoS, in the short term, is all the Oldhammer folks who want AoS to somehow be Oldhammer with new rules. The problem is Oldhammer is not AoS. They are two separate and distinct games with their own fluff. They do not have any points in common.

B

I think you are mistaking Oldhammer and a Warhammer 8th player. Oldhammer is a fluid term but for the most part it's about playing older game systems from ones youth (3rd Edition is most common of the WhFB, RT for 40k ect) in the late 1980's/early 1990 of nostalgia rather then rules,

Speaking of rules, it's not just rescricted to '''Hammer'' games either with a fair few non-GW games being favoured by the Oldhammer scene.

For the most part AoS has no impact on Oldhammer (Other then people thinking Oldhammer is a catch all term for warhammer players) as are world has been dead for 15-20 years and the blowing up of the current WhFB doesn't stop or effect us using are armies which have long been cut out the fluff and rules (Zoats, Fimir, Slann, Fishmen, Hybrids ect)

[3 fingers]

Put a request to join the Oldhammer trade fb page,be nice to see some realistic priced lead.

[grant]

At one time my collection was all the books from 1st Ed. Warhammer and 40k - yes, all of them - 10000pts of Orcs and Goblins, 4000pts of modern Orks and a RT/2nd Ed. 40k army that was epic in size. I had a few other armies too, modern Skaven which I immensely liked with the Island of Blood boxed plastics. Probably 75% of what I owned was metal though.

All that is gone. I wouldn't even want to think about starting again or collecting all over.
For me, GW is over.

AoS is a big pile of poo, clearly, from the vast amount of web response (never a proper survey!) but my god if the AoS people have to meet up in secret because it's so bad, surely that's bad, right?

Not posting threads because of Internet hate? Any nicely painted and interesting project is worth posting. Or, as Frostgrave proves, post everything as long as it says "Frostgrave". But seriously, GW are probably sitting back and wondering just how bad this decision was and why they did it. Was it a joke gone bad? Surely it can't be the lack of writers - they put out a whopping 4 pages of rules. Once all the real GW talent left, it was over anyway.

They should just sell the company to Hasbro and move on. Pretty soon we will have Age of Sigmar Saturday morning cartoons and blistered preprinted action figure sets. Like He-Man in the 80s.

[Rhoderic]

There is a world of difference between being critical - even extremely critical - of AoS or GW, and harassing people who play/collect AoS or other GW games. I can't speak for other communities, but I have seen no harassment of AoS players on LAF, least of all in the Stormcast Eternals thread which I have just read through. Plenty of criticism for AoS in this thread right here, sure, but again, that's just not the same thing in the least.

Anyway, it's not as if we detractors are some monolithic wall of dumb hate. Most or all of us have a more complex, multifaceted view than that, and if we are to somehow be taken as a "collective" (which I don't think we should), then that view becomes even more complex and multifaceted because we're not all in agreement over everything. The complexity and multifacetedness of our opinions is the engine that's powering the discussion in this thread. It's not willful griefing and trolling.

For instance, I'm less certain than some others in this thread that AoS is a commercial disaster for GW, mainly because I'm not informed on the subject and simply don't care enough to see any point in investigating it. I do have an extremely cynical view of GW, because GW treats its customers in an extremely cynical way, but that doesn't equate to believing the company is flopping. Maybe it is flopping, but I just don't know or care.

As another example, while I generally feel that AoS is rather garish and turgid, that wouldn't stop me scavenging a few of the more basic-looking Sigmarines for non-AoS projects if the mood strikes me and I can find them cheap enough. I don't hate them.

[Dim_Reaper]

Well I'm at least impressed that it took this long before the "Can't enjoy because hate" argument came crawling out. Now all we need to do is add the "entitlement" argument next to the "they're a business" argument and we almost have the full set.

I do try my best, but I find it hard to have meaningful discussions with anyone who doesn't agree that the anger within (and out of) the fanbase isn't massively justified. So hopefully we all agree on that, because for me, the evidence is plain. To me, The White Knights have grown silent more because of lacking decent arguments than of being sick of "hate". Haters gonna hate and all that (I'm so home with the downies) but the "haters" are right. GW's writing is appalling. The recent "Models Company" shift has obviously given hope to certain quarters, but it's meaningless. Without a point, they're paperweights. Better looking and more affordable paperweights are available. It's not difficult to get Rackham Sculpts for instance, or the countless waves of new companies using sculpting talent, and CAD, you know that thing GW thinks is a USP? Yeah, that.

I have fun playing Age of Sigmar, which is an experience I never had with WHFB. Sorry to say this to the fans, but I'm not sorry it's gone. I never really saw the point of regimental at 28mm, and as regimental rulesets go (and I'm including historical with this) Warhammer is vastly overrated. WHFB also is far too character driven, and well, 8th Edition was just awful. I've never really enjoyed the game. I rather like Age of Sigmar because it's freer. If I'd have taken a Skeletal Horde, or Goblin/Gnoblar alliance in WHFB, I'd have been laughed from the gaming board. In AoS, they stand as much a chance as any with the right proportions.

I don't like that it's entirely player responsibility to balance, and is going to become increasingly pay to win. I also don't like the possibility that the whole Free Rules thing will fall on the wayside. I am long past the point of thinking that any of GW's writing, or Black Library for that matter, is worth money.

I don't know whether AoS has been a huge success, but certainly, the WHFB players have gone apeshit over it. Whilst I think AoS is a superior game for the scale, I do think they are right to be angry. GW have done a massive reset to essentially satisfy their lawyers, and persist with corporate greed over common sense. They rather deserve to fail. And I say that being one of the few "haters" who likes Age of Sigmar, so you can just imagine what others think.

Whilst I don't subscribe to the imminent GW Doom theory, I do think GW could be in serious trouble over the next few years if they don't do something to address their appalling customer relations. Because that can and will destroy them. If anybody wonders whether that can happen, just pop the words "Confrontation: Age of Ragnarok" into google, and see what you get...

[grant]

There is a world of difference between being critical - even extremely critical - of AoS or GW, and harassing people who play/collect AoS or other GW games. I can't speak for other communities, but I have seen no harassment of AoS players on LAF, least of all in the Stormcast Eternals thread which I have just read through. Plenty of criticism for AoS in this thread right here, sure, but again, that's just not the same thing in the least.

That's because this is the place to disparage all things GW! Back in the "old days" there were a million GW threads, all hate based (well, maybe one was good), and the community (or moderators, who we all love!) decided to put it all in one big septic tank, the LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread.

All hatred belongs here. Some good, sure, but this is the place to vent about GW and it's awful ways, the end of the Warhammer World, etc. etc. etc.

Painting and modelling threads that are good - I mean this - are good no matter the subject. That's why they won't drift past "I like your blue guys, what colour, etc" into "Death to GW!" - the hate is captured here.

It was a bright cold day in December, and the clocks were striking thirteen.



He loved Games Workshop.

[Rhoderic]

I never really saw the point of regimental at 28mm, and as regimental rulesets go (and I'm including historical with this) Warhammer is vastly overrated.

There was a time when I would have disagreed with that, but these days I agree. Regimental looks and plays far better in the smaller scales, whereas 28mm looks and plays best at a skirmish level. WHFB also doesn't stand up well to other regimental rulesets these days (including some of Rick Priestley's own later ones), and its charm lies mainly in using the older editions to re-live the quaint old times when wonky rulesets didn't matter because you were being a pioneer playing fantasy miniature wargames in the first place (not that there weren't fantasy rulesets before WHFB, of course). My largely negative opinion of AoS is not to do with the fact that it did away with WHFB or the 28mm regimental premise - both being things I abandoned long before GW did.

Of course, others may disagree with at least some of what I've just said, and point out that 28mm regimental fantasy wargaming is still getting a lot of love (KoW, etc). Which just goes to what I've been saying about complex, multifaceted views.

That's because this is the place to disparage all things GW! Back in the "old days" there were a million GW threads, all hate based (well, maybe one was good), and the community (or moderators, who we all love!) decided to put it all in one big septic tank, the LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread.

All hatred belongs here. Some good, sure, but this is the place to vent about GW and it's awful ways, the end of the Warhammer World, etc. etc. etc.

Painting and modelling threads that are good - I mean this - are good no matter the subject. That's why they won't drift past "I like your blue guys, what colour, etc" into "Death to GW!" - the hate is captured here.

No disagreement from me

[Hupp n at em]

That doesn't mean the game has failed. What it does mean is that folks who like AoS have just "gone underground." In my case, I have a Stormcast Eternals thread that I was planning to update as I finished painting my units. I decided to can this project. Doesn't mean I'm not still painting my army or buying more stuff, does mean I'm not going to post anymore photos of my minis.

Just fed up with all the griefing and trolling...

I have zero interest in most new GW figures or any of their rulesets, but it's a shame to hear that Ray, I was really enjoying your paintjobs in that thread. 

[thenamelessdead]

GW release a £100 model to no reaction - is this how far it has gone now that nobody finds it shocking?!