Author Topic: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread (Read 1742350 times)

Ray Rivers · « **Reply #6105 on:** March 11, 2017, 01:25:27 PM »

Quote from: nic-e on March 10, 2017, 05:46:28 PM

God that box is going to sell well..I can already feel the stress of handling the preorders for it....

Excellent observations concerning the direction GW may be heading.

Think you might have nailed it.

nic-e · « **Reply #6106 on:** March 11, 2017, 01:34:30 PM »

Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 11, 2017, 01:25:27 PM

Excellent observations concerning the direction GW may be heading.

Think you might have nailed it.

Despite my dislike of the custodes being put into the game (I have my reasons and they are many) I really do love GW and want them to carry on doing great stuff.

So I say this as someone who supports what they're doing for the most part... SLOW DOWN! You're going to give me a heart attack before i turn 25 handling all these pre orders for these new box sets! On release days I physically can't move fast enough to keep the shelves stocked with the new triumvirate boxes and books.

Andrew Rae · « **Reply #6107 on:** March 11, 2017, 01:41:08 PM »

I had wondered if perhaps the Custodes might be morphed into a 'New Marines'- style faction, since both they and Stormcast, and to a lesser extent the Deathwatch, show GW is desperate to make bigger marines. But if they actually do make New Marines, all the better. Under the chintz, and aside from the slightly awkward shoulder/arm join, the Custodes are great figures. If New Marines can match that but with less bling I'll have to get some.

Momotaro · « **Reply #6108 on:** March 11, 2017, 02:13:18 PM »

Quote from: nic-e on March 11, 2017, 01:34:30 PM

Despite my dislike of the custodes being put into the game (I have my reasons and they are many) I really do love GW and want them to carry on doing great stuff.

I probably agree with most of your reasons, but they were actually statted up in Rogue Trader back in 1987! Mind you, they only wore underpants and a helmet back then

nic-e · « **Reply #6109 on:** March 11, 2017, 03:42:18 PM »

Quote from: Momotaro on March 11, 2017, 02:13:18 PM

I probably agree with most of your reasons, but they were actually statted up in Rogue Trader back in 1987! Mind you, they only wore underpants and a helmet back then

And if they did that now I'd probably be less bothered by them!

Mostly it's the same reason I don't get along with the fleshing out of the Horus heresy through games.for me 40k is all about fluff and the grand setting, and having everything stated removes all ambiguity from that. I no longer hear arguments about whether x could beat x come down to stories or fluf speculation, but instead it all just gets resolved with boring stat crunching.

A perfect example came up the other day when forge world asked on facebook who would win out of a custodes dreadnought and a nurgle monster. Rather than people going with fluff or rooting for their favorite, everyone was just quoting figures at each other.

For me having everything stated up removes all speculation and mystery from the game universe. I know I'm going to be in a minority that cares more about keeping the setting rich and opaque, But when people can't have fun arguing about whether the emperor could beat demon magnus ,then I feel we've lost something.
(the fact that we're going to get stats for the emperor hurts me.)

(As a side note, i'm seeing more calls for 40k to be more realistic and stop being so silly and gothic on forums like dakka dakka. These people need to play something else and I'll fight anyone who agrees with them.)

beefcake · « **Reply #6110 on:** March 11, 2017, 06:53:03 PM »

I'm In agreement. It is the same for any world created whether it be tabletop game, computer game or book. Keeping a sense of mystery over some things let's people imagine it in their own way (to some degree). When it comes to the emporer he is meant to be this supreme creation. Providing stats for him will show strengths and weaknesses. Also the stats in 40k have limits to them. Surely someone of his power should be beyond these limits.

Momotaro · « **Reply #6111 on:** March 11, 2017, 07:12:00 PM »

It's in the nature of long-running geek media, I think. A need to produce material to satisfy fan hunger.

Star Trek and Star Wars all suffered from massive setting bloat over the years (not to mention the Marvel and DC universes). Given the nature of every media, a fair chunk of it was bound to be rubbish or contentious (or both), and eventually you find that every story has been told several times over for every character. And of course every character has MET every other character - the universe becomes small, cramped.

Interesting that ST and SW have both had massive reboots, declaring a vast amount of material either non-canon or "in another universe".

One of the things I love about the 40k universe (and also Gates of Antares) is the notion that vast areas of former empires remain totally unknown. They're for players to explore and make heir own stories and campaigns in.

Gaming universe resets have something of a chequered history, and the potential for a new direction to go totally wrong is, of course, very high. Traveller's Virus, which played havoc with 15 years' worth of gaming campaigns was never entirely welcome, nor Age of Sigmar's destruction of the Old World (30 years' worth in that case). Both were great new worlds to explore in their own right, but I reckon such radical revisions are best spun off as new gaming universes without touching the old. I dunno, maybe the fans don't stop asking for the old stuff back unless authors say "it's gone forever".

nic-e · « **Reply #6112 on:** March 11, 2017, 10:17:11 PM »

Quote from: Momotaro on March 11, 2017, 07:12:00 PM

It's in the nature of long-running geek media, I think. A need to produce material to satisfy fan hunger.

Star Trek and Star Wars all suffered from massive setting bloat over the years (not to mention the Marvel and DC universes). Given the nature of every media, a fair chunk of it was bound to be rubbish or contentious (or both), and eventually you find that every story has been told several times over for every character. And of course every character has MET every other character - the universe becomes small, cramped.

Interesting that ST and SW have both had massive reboots, declaring a vast amount of material either non-canon or "in another universe".

One of the things I love about the 40k universe (and also Gates of Antares) is the notion that vast areas of former empires remain totally unknown. They're for players to explore and make heir own stories and campaigns in.

Gaming universe resets have something of a chequered history, and the potential for a new direction to go totally wrong is, of course, very high. Traveller's Virus, which played havoc with 15 years' worth of gaming campaigns was never entirely welcome, nor Age of Sigmar's destruction of the Old World (30 years' worth in that case). Both were great new worlds to explore in their own right, but I reckon such radical revisions are best spun off as new gaming universes without touching the old. I dunno, maybe the fans don't stop asking for the old stuff back unless authors say "it's gone forever".

I think it's just that. The fans want this stuff because they of course want more of the thing they love. The issue is that the only way to add things like the emperor is either with novels (like the new one which has had fairly good reviews and i will read.) or collectable models, but people will always want to have these things in the game which they feel is the point of the universes existence.

Part of what makes middle earth great is that while you engage with the personal actions of heros, you also get a glimpse at a vast and often ruined world that hints at ancient stories. Part of the fun is not in reading, But in letting your mind wander through the barrows and ruins of arnor and speculate about what could have laid these lands so low.It's why some people (not me) don't really enjoy ther extended tales. 40k is the same , and I think the reason why things like INQ28 and inquisimunda have really taken off lately has been that those who love the universe have found it to be a good reaction against games workshops desire to add clarity to the setting through grand events.
It still allows them to engage with the hobby and setting they love in the tolkien way, A personal , small scope view of a vast and unknowable universe.

Ray Rivers · « **Reply #6113 on:** March 12, 2017, 05:33:47 PM »

BTW...

Anybody know how the Custodes and Stormcast scale?

Are they the same height?

Belligerentparrot · « **Reply #6114 on:** March 12, 2017, 09:50:46 PM »

On the bloat point:
I fully understand the fans' desire to know more about a cool setting. What I don't get is why fans can't just make it up themselves. I guess then you can't win internet arguments. But for me, part of the fun is seeing other people's different interpretations of fluff. I don't mind "canon" answers, but I find other interpretations can be even more interesting. True-scale Space Marines are a case in point: personally, they're not for me, as I found other interpretations of the RT-era fluff more interesting than the story GW subsequently told.

All fiction necessarily leaves gaps, and there isn't any right answer to fill those gaps - just more or less interesting stories. Tom Stoppard's play "Rosancrantz and Guildenstern" really hammered this home for me. (For those who may be unfamiliar with it, he takes two minor characters from Hamlet and makes a play about what they were up to when they weren't appearing in the plot of Hamlet - it is well worth checking out).

horridperson · « **Reply #6115 on:** March 12, 2017, 10:36:40 PM »

I'm most interested in the fringes of any imagined universe. The undefined edges are where you get to create your own stories/legends. A clearly defined "center" doesn't interefere with my own canon and a universe with edges full of unknown vagaries works just fine. I appreciated Star Trek's Enterprise so I've never had a problem with 40k demystifying links to the past. It's all good unless it's really poor storytelling like Star Wars. It wasn't the act; It was the execution.