The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Elbows]

I would imagine a third party supplier makes heads like that (or gas mask WW1 style heads, etc.).  Surely, someone?

[Elbows]

Some rulebook teasers are out for Shadow War Armageddon.  Unfortunately not great news.  While it's far more Necromunda than the dumpster fire that is current 40K, it's been smacked around with the "dumb down" stick as they did with other reborn titles like WHQ etc.  If you want full Necromunda depth you'll have to use the old Necromunda tables, etc.

-No wound depth, just dead or not
-One model per warband gets an upgrade each game(?)
-No real territories, etc.

[Predatorpt]

There's also the news that the terrain from "Shadow War: Armageddon" will be available separately (can't remember the prices but they are in this month White Dwarf - 3 new boxes). The game itself will cost £90 (or €120).

[Elbows]

Yep, there are three kits (which are combined in the starter box).  The prices are...proud to put it politely.  The main box (with online discount) will be the way to do this stuff for sure - particularly if you sell off your scouts/orks/rulebook from additional boxes.  That'd be the way to do a decent table.  In the U.S. it's retail at $130, so probably around $105-110.00 after discount.  Not an amazing deal by any stretch, but not terrible.

For reference they've listed some of the individual terrain kits at around $50-60...

[Major_Gilbear]

Some rulebook teasers are out for Shadow War Armageddon.  Unfortunately not great news.  While it's far more Necromunda than the dumpster fire that is current 40K, it's been smacked around with the "dumb down" stick as they did with other reborn titles like WHQ etc.  If you want full Necromunda depth you'll have to use the old Necromunda tables, etc.

-No wound depth, just dead or not
-One model per warband gets an upgrade each game(?)
-No real territories, etc.

Well, it's not actually Necromunda...

And to be honest, for many people, after a few games' worth of skills and cool equipment (or injuries and rubbish trade/income rolls), there is a lot of disparity between the participating gangs in even a modest campaign. It's at that point that many gaming groups find that most of the campaign's starting players suddenly don't have much interest any more.

This "streamlined-Necromunda-40k" looks like what it is: a small covert ops skirmish game to use existing 40k kits, and which provides a more entertaining and fulfilling afternoon than the previous Kill Team effort.

Rules-wise, I suspect that it uses an AoS-style ruleset but presented in a more 40k manner, and that it'll be closely related to the upcoming 8th edition.

Plus, it shifts old models, and it lets GW test how widespread the real appetite of players is for skirmish 40k games. It also "softens" the upcoming changes to the 8E ruleset if people have already been playing with them for a few months.

Fair enough I say.

[Gibby]

Also I don't see how the reborn WHQ is dumbed down. It's a totally different ruleset, with interesting mechanics, and frankly is way easier and MORE FUN to play than the old game. IMO...

[Elbows]

To be fair the new WHQ isn't really Warhammer Quest, it's just using the title to sell the game.  I also have no doubt SWA will sell plenty well and be well received.  Personally the reason I like the older games was expressly for the chunk (and all the failings that came with it).  I don't need "way easier" to play.  I occasionally want something I can sink my teeth into, and buy a product which has enough depth (even if it needs tweaking) to keep me interested for a long time.  There is a reason games like Mordheim, Necromunda, and Warhammer Quest have healthy fan bases 20+ years after their release.

Give me the chunk, and I'll polish it myself.  I know plenty of people don't want/like that and fair enough.  Opinions will always differ.

[Duncan McDane]

I'm sure there will be expensions for SWA, just as they did voor WHQ-ST. Never played the old WHQ but I like this one ( played 3 solo scenario's ), quick and easy play, and with a few tweaks you can make the heroes more "independent", as if played by 4 different players.
To be fair, it's a beer and pretzel game ( with quite a chaotic and unclear written rulebook, I like an index for starters and not having to flip trough several pages in order to solve a situation ) and I wouldn't play it over and over again with my gaming buddies - because it's not that big a challenge - but I'm pretty happy with it.
Will probably get the SWA and expect it to be a new game and not compare it with Necromunda, got that already, played and enjoyed that but as GW simplified their rules and games in order to sell to a younger public, that's fine with me.
In short, they sell miniatures and stick some rules to them so people can roll a few dice and buy storybooks if they want too  .

[Sir_Theo]

If these rules are bona fide

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/leaked-rules-for-shadow-wars-armegeddon.html?m=1

It just looks like 2ed 40k minus the psychic phase and with he end bit tacked on

[Major_Gilbear]

Well, simplified rules are not just aimed at "younger audiences"; some people just don't want to wade through a telephone-directory-sized rulebook simply to find out if they can move diagonally on the board, or fire a bow at a model 8 squares away.

In fact, quite a lot of the most popular boardgames that are considered to have a good level of replay value still have very simple rules.

Whilst with miniature games I understand that the demographic is a little different (as you have to assemble the miniatures at the very minimum), I do still get the impression that rules brevity is valued my many to enable quicker pick-up games. The real key is to have enough depth of gameplay and variety of force configuration to make the game more engaging and enduring than GW's other 40k skirmish effort "Kill Team".

With reference to rules "chunk" as Elbows calls it, the issue for me is that it adds a lot volume and complication for achieving something which is often not that important or detailed, and which is usually the source of imbalance and frustration for many players after only a few linked games - especially as they are typically elements over which there is no control over the outcome at all. (It's also not for nothing that Mordheim changed quite a lot of aspects of the Necromunda template in this regard!)

[The Voivod]

I don't dislike simple rules, as long as the game play is deep.
I think the rules for x-wing are rather simple. Their easy to explain and the gameplay can be very deep and divers.
Same goes for multiple games.

I'll just wait and see.

[Momotaro]

I would imagine a third party supplier makes heads like that (or gas mask WW1 style heads, etc.).  Surely, someone?

Anvil Industry does SF Stahlhelms with gasmasks in its Regiments range.  Pickelhaubes are due soon.

Quality?  It's not that they are as good as Forgeworld, rather I'm pleasantly surprised when Forgeworld lives up to what I've come to expect from Anvil 

[Elbows]

I love when people think Forgeworld is "high quality" stuff

Yeah at the moment I'm looking at the Anvil Stahlhelms and some of the Victoria Miniatures bare heads with gas masks.

[Dr Mathias]

I love when people think Forgeworld is "high quality" stuff

My experience with 3rd party resin casters is that they are almost always better than FW. Ive used quite a few- Anvil, Mad Robot, MaxMini, Puppet's War (they started off rough but have gotten much better), Victoria, just to name a few.

[thenamelessdead]

I used to like playing Necromunda but found the post-battle sequence a tedious slog. Mordheim was much better in that regard. What puzzles me is that GW would want the smaller games to be easy to play while the big core games are overloaded with special rules.