The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Kommando_J]

'' I'd imagine that a compendium will be released at some point down the line to cash in on the 'waiters' and those late to the game.''

A bit unfair to the early adopters though.

[Major_Gilbear]

I understand staggered releases, and I can even (sort of) understand not putting the "full 3D game" rules into the starter box.

But a nice hardback with full rules for all six House gangs, and a proper set of campaign rules is what GW1 should have been. To accompany this, the other four House gangs should have been released one-a-month to get them all out by Easter. The plastic House gang kits should have all the basic weapons that you'd expect, with rare and esoteric weapons being saved for separate upgrade packs (this also maximises the use of Necromunda gangs as alternative Imperial Guard, Chaos Cultists, etc., and boosts sales of the kits).

Following on from this, there are still rare/esoteric weapon upgrade packs, a dozen gangs, and a score of hired guns, special characters, alternative sculpts, themed/narrative campaigns, weather charts, special scenarios, interactive terrain rules, and loads of additional story and background that could have been used to fuel further supplements spaced a few months apart in order to support the game.

Instead, a lot of people who might be interested see that they have to buy a load of separate stuff besides the big starter box, and then might not have the gangs they want out yet, and then see that weapons and ganger types are still not fully released, and then... just wander off and forget about it.

I totally get staggered releases, but the choice of what and how to release this new edition of Necromunda is confusing and frustrating to say the least. From what I can see so far, it's done as much harm as it has good.

[stone-cold-lead]

'' I'd imagine that a compendium will be released at some point down the line to cash in on the 'waiters' and those late to the game.''

A bit unfair to the early adopters though.

Well GW will be wanting to maximise sales of stuff throughout the initial release period. I know that makes them money grabbing assholes in the eyes of some but it's what's going to keep the game turning a profit for now (GW runs as a business not a hobby). Once the main releases and extras are done with and sales start to drop off that's when I'm sure they'll make it quicker and cheaper to get into to push sales further. It's not unfair for all early adopters if people are happy with and understand the release strategy. Some are going to wait it out and see but let's remember no one's being forced to buy Necromunda.

[Kommando_J]

''It's not unfair for all early adopters if people are happy with and understand the release strategy.''

That's the thing though, people do understand are unhappy.

[Argonor]

Doesn't mean they couldn't prepare all the gangs in advance and *then* release more than just two at once.

That would be a very poor decision economics-wise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventory_theory).

(What, Argonor making a post defending GW, *gasp*?! - Well I'm still not getting back into buying their, in my opinion, grossly overpriced products, but having a major in business economics, I do 'get' some of their decisions.)

[3 fingers]

Those slayers?look aweful,the skaven remind me of the frostgrave gnolls,for some strange reason.

[Major_Gilbear]

I think I'm going to be buying a few of those Shadespire Skaven sets for use in Mordheim... Anybody want to buy the cards that I'll going spare off me? 

[Duncan McDane]

I'll get both the Shadespire gangs ( Dwarf & Skaven ). I like the game, like to try out new gangs, they're dead cheap when ordered from Wayland and as the models are snapfits ( 3 - 4 parts ) they will surely get used. Were they the standard 10+ parts per model sprues, I'd probably pass or only buy the basic set and use my own proxy models...

[boneio]

That would be a very poor decision economics-wise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventory_theory).

(What, Argonor making a post defending GW, *gasp*?! - Well I'm still not getting back into buying their, in my opinion, grossly overpriced products, but having a major in business economics, I do 'get' some of their decisions.)

Fair point, there, thank you.

[boneio]

I understand staggered releases, and I can even (sort of) understand not putting the "full 3D game" rules into the starter box.

But a nice hardback with full rules for all six House gangs, and a proper set of campaign rules is what GW1 should have been. To accompany this, the other four House gangs should have been released one-a-month to get them all out by Easter. The plastic House gang kits should have all the basic weapons that you'd expect, with rare and esoteric weapons being saved for separate upgrade packs (this also maximises the use of Necromunda gangs as alternative Imperial Guard, Chaos Cultists, etc., and boosts sales of the kits).

Following on from this, there are still rare/esoteric weapon upgrade packs, a dozen gangs, and a score of hired guns, special characters, alternative sculpts, themed/narrative campaigns, weather charts, special scenarios, interactive terrain rules, and loads of additional story and background that could have been used to fuel further supplements spaced a few months apart in order to support the game.

Instead, a lot of people who might be interested see that they have to buy a load of separate stuff besides the big starter box, and then might not have the gangs they want out yet, and then see that weapons and ganger types are still not fully released, and then... just wander off and forget about it.

I totally get staggered releases, but the choice of what and how to release this new edition of Necromunda is confusing and frustrating to say the least. From what I can see so far, it's done as much harm as it has good.

Exactly this. I'm not buying Necromunda at the moment - not because the cost is much of a concern but because it feels like an incomplete game, and because yes I object to having to buy several books just to get what other manufacturers would release in one volume.
I'm not ruling out getting into it in the future but, anecdotally at least, theyre missing out on a few customers this way.

I'm not cutting off my nose to spite my face, I'm just underwhelmed at the moment with the new Necromunda.

Similarly Malign Portents - Undead are my thing, but I added up what it'd cost to buy into this release and the books, cards, dice alone are enough to buy most of an army!

[Elbows]

Basically what Major said.  I don't support video or PC games which do this kind of DLC-drip-feed (regardless of how commercially successful it is), and I'm unlikely to go in to a tabletop game which does the same.  That is not how you earn my business.  GW can do stuff the way they want, but I will continue to vote with my meagre wallet, no big deal.  As stated earlier, I'm likely to buy a couple boxes of Cawdor gangers to run old Necromunda (particularly if they can be substituted as Chaos Cultists for a 40K army of mine), but Necromunda had a chance to become one of my "big" projects (i.e. buy a lot, build a full table, start a local community league, etc.) and it's no longer being considered.

[FramFramson]

'' I'd imagine that a compendium will be released at some point down the line to cash in on the 'waiters' and those late to the game.''

A bit unfair to the early adopters though.

Early adopters generally pay a premium to be early adopters though.

In a world of regular deep discount sales (e.g. buying a newly released PC game vs waiting for a Steam sale) and games being incomplete at launch, that's something that's more and more generally acknowledged.

[nic-e]

Similarly Malign Portents - Undead are my thing, but I added up what it'd cost to buy into this release and the books, cards, dice alone are enough to buy most of an army!

Really?

Cus i'm looking at the website now and even if you went all in on the accessories, the bundle for that is only £37.50 . That's the book, dice, measuring template and cards.
If you add the dead marshall that takes you to just under £60 . Not a small amount but not an army by any stretch, and you've still got a fair bit to add into your games.

hell, throw the undead battletome in and you you're not even at £80 .

It's not cheap, but that's two books a deck of cards a set of dice a temple and a plastic character. you aren't exactly getting sod all for your money , and if you wanted to engage in the malign portents stuff you really only need to book.

For that much you COULD but a start collecting box and a couple of extra boxes of skeletons , but it's not an army worthy of Shyish.

[nic-e]

Early adopters generally pay a premium to be early adopters though.

 

Sorry to doublepost but this just reminded me of something. If you wanna look at how not to do early adapter schemes, look at steamforged new game.
Wanna help us playtest our ruleset? Well you better bloody pay for the privilege and we expect results!  instead of a pdf and some paper tokens or an open table at shows, they're just selling expensive playtest boxes. sure you get the miniatures, but the premium price comes from you being the lucky boy or girl who gets to spend their evening filling in a pros and cons chart for them!

And all for only £120!!! Isn't that great! Do some work for us AND pay for the privilege!

So say what you want about the necromunda release model, at least GW playtest things before making you pay for them (even if they aren't always the best at it!)

[Kommando_J]

Just saw a guy answering questions on 4chan about the new gang war 2(he bought a copy at the weekender) some points:

Pros:
 - Three different profiles for bounty hunters, one is clearly a squat suitable profile

 - Expanded weapon list with stats.

 - Rules for hangers on/hired goons.

 -  Many Dramatis personae

Cons:

 - No new trading list if i'm reading things correctly, so while their is rules for a bolter for example, their is no way to actually buy one as their is no price/rarity listing.

- The above means that hired goons/bounty hunters aren't as good/varied as they could be