The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Belligerentparrot]

This may not apply to the Lead Adventure side of things, as the hobby level here is 10x that of the other forums/boards/groups I peruse, but this is my take on it...

The 'Warhammer' hobby now has nothing to do with the wargaming hobby.  It's not about painting miniatures, putting them on a table and playing a game.  The hobby is now...buying, planning to buy, complaining about buying, and then arguing about FOMO stuff.  The hobby is about searching and arguing about FAQ's, Erratas, complaining about overpowered armies (that you'll never play against), moaning about tournament performance, discussing army lists...and then ditching all of that in three months when the next 'big' game comes out.  The hobby is now watching YouTube videos about the game you don't actually play...and listening to podcasts complaining about the game you don't actually play.  Then you repeat that process, then try to sell a heap of unpainted stuff "Looking to trade for (insert newest big box game from GW)".

This is all I see in the local gaming scene.  Every single "game" I see at the two local stores is:

1) Unpainted 40K Models, maybe 20-30% primed.
2) Played on a lava themed neoprene mat.
3) Huge neoprene scoring zones advertising an eBay shop.
4) A smattering of unpainted 3D printed terrain and MDF houses from WW2.

The same people...in three months time will be playing the latest version of Old World...or then Age of Sigmar...or then Horus Heresy...or then Adeptus Titanicus...or then Legions Imperialis...or then Blood Bowl.  Literally whatever the latest box is, that's what is splayed out on the table, unpainted.

That...is the Warhammer hobby for a large portion of people.  That makes GW a ton of money.  These guys dump $300-500 every few months on the next big thing that they're "absolutely" going to play.

In my experience this actually describes non-GW gamers who get sucked into the FOMO of Kickstarters that they just chuck on the lead pile and never really play or do anything with far more than GW gamers.

The GW gamers I know tend to be a lot more like MtG players - constantly trying to stay one step ahead of the "meta". They don't necessarily paint very much but they're ALL about the gaming, always playtesting their latest torqued out army lists. GW's attempt at copying the MtG Standard format tournament scene, where you have to constantly keep buying to keep up, isn't as effective as MtG but it is all about playing.

[Tactalvanic]

I don't think they even see the physical product as the main revenue anymore, going into future decades. painted or not.

IP - sell/trade/license to other media type creators rinse repeat. As they already do. Only. More.

computer/console/gaming and virtual product - add-ons - costumes/characters etc, even pay to win online gaming etc. That is the future for them. Proven business model, the add-ons now generate more profit than the actual games they are for.

no need for colouring in, its done for you, and you can be whoever you pay to be.. online. and can draw from a much larger customer base once you have them.

Sure feed that core of players of grey plastic to maintain a physical presence, to enable justification of the GW traditional hobby, but really just to enable moving more towards virtual, and for now the base of the IP.

Surely its not long until we see a decade long adaptation to streaming/movies of 1980s/90s and eventually Warhammer ENDGAME World destruction the original bad guys become the good guys and even bigger badder ones appear... and then oh hangon its not destroyed, twas but a dream... lets start again with the TV adaptation:

"Emperor's Butt - the Throne of Power - one chair to rule them all.."

[jon_1066]

Any time accountants get too much of a say in a company, the first thing that happens is they look at what seems to be losing money and they cut it, with limited understanding of the long term growth that comes from seemingly loss-making policies. GW stores were stripped of their staff some time back and a lot of them seem like a 1 person operation now. Does GW (or perhaps I should say 'Warhammer' now) still command the stranglehold on the youth market of the hobby they used to? No idea to be honest.

As you say the Warhammer stores were an obvious cost with less than stellar returns directly but they literally acted as the shop window for the company.  The accountants obviously shrunk them to a fraction of their former selves so it will be interesting to see any long term effect on GW sales because of it.  Looking at recent performance it doesn't seem to have had an effect but will that continue?

[Moonglum_]

I don't think they even see the physical product as the main revenue anymore, going into future decades. painted or not.

IP - sell/trade/license to other media type creators rinse repeat. As they already do. Only. More.

computer/console/gaming and virtual product - add-ons - costumes/characters etc, even pay to win online gaming etc. That is the future for them. Proven business model, the add-ons now generate more profit than the actual games they are for.

Totally. This is the way Dungeons & Dragons went. Now, that did result in the game being more popular in the last 10 years than it ever was, it just isn't a game I want to play anymore (although neither was the edition before this one). It also seems to have peaked as they've sucked all they could out of it.

The accountants obviously shrunk them to a fraction of their former selves so it will be interesting to see any long term effect on GW sales because of it.  Looking at recent performance it doesn't seem to have had an effect but will that continue?

The Old World does seem to be more popular than they anticipated and there is a lot of hype around the new edition of the Middle-Earth game. I play the latter but am probably not going to jump to that new edition immediately, if ever.

[Cubs]

I don't think they even see the physical product as the main revenue anymore, going into future decades. painted or not.

Yeah, this and what you wrote after - this makes sense and to be honest I don't have any 40K models any more (except a few unpainted Ratlings, but they don't count) and never really got into the gaming side, but I played and still do play 'Dawn of War'. My nephew has said he's considering buying a few models (but so far hasn't) because he plays 40K online and enjoys it. My question is, without the physical hobby side of it, can the 'add-ons' generate their own interest or not?

[HerbertTarkel]

Yeah, this and what you wrote after - this makes sense and to be honest I don't have any 40K models any more (except a few unpainted Ratlings, but they don't count) and never really got into the gaming side, but I played and still do play 'Dawn of War'. My nephew has said he's considering buying a few models (but so far hasn't) because he plays 40K online and enjoys it. My question is, without the physical hobby side of it, can the 'add-ons' generate their own interest or not?

One would think that the physical drives the digital, which in turn drives some desire for physical - but what if that circle does become broken?

HALO for example was obviously one of the best know XBox games, but hasn’t succeeded to a major extent as a physical game - that I am aware of.

I too have very few 40k models anymore; I’m down to an Orks army I built during the End Times (and it’s for sale now); my Fantasy interest was renewed with the Old World but died pretty quickly due to FOMO shenanigans (made to order, for example).

[JollyBob]

I agree with everything everyone has posted, too much of the Next Thing while I am firmly committed to buying all the things I couldn't afford when I was 10. Warhammer stopped at 3rd Ed and Rogue Trader for me, and probably for many others on here.

I would just point out though, that in the spirit of Oldhammer, Fomo Shenanigans is now the name of my Halfling army commander.
Cheers Herbert!

[Moonglum_]

Warhammer stopped at 3rd Ed and Rogue Trader for me, and probably for many others on here.

I feel like I see an equal amount of love for 3rd-6th ed around here. 7th/8th seem to be where the buck stops, with 6th being the last one written by Priestly.

I know very little about 3rd, perhaps I should finally look at it.

[v_lazy_dragon]

Saw a facebook video on the weekend, with a videogamer getting super excited that there were 'other videogames' (Warhammer 40000 Dark Tide) in the 'Space Marine 2' universe, and gushing about all the detailed lore.
I sniggered at the time, but perhaps shows that the digital products branding don't nessecarily link into each other as well as they could...

[HerbertTarkel]

I would just point out though, that in the spirit of Oldhammer, Fomo Shenanigans is now the name of my Halfling army commander.
Cheers Herbert!

  And a fine name it is!

[Tactalvanic]

Yeah, this and what you wrote after - this makes sense and to be honest I don't have any 40K models any more (except a few unpainted Ratlings, but they don't count) and never really got into the gaming side, but I played and still do play 'Dawn of War'. My nephew has said he's considering buying a few models (but so far hasn't) because he plays 40K online and enjoys it. My question is, without the physical hobby side of it, can the 'add-ons' generate their own interest or not?

There are comments on multiple forums about blizzard making more revenue on WOW addons such as mounts etc, it rivals what they originally made in revenue from complete games previously.

So yeah, we are talking GW here, they are not going to miss a money maker option like that. fits them perfectly going forward, globally, the generations are so used to virtual tat, rather than physical they see it as the norm to "own" something that actually does not exist outside a piece of software eg the base game its for.. I suffer from the affliction to, too some extent.

As well as wanting actual physical tat as well of course.. digital mountains are just not the same as real ones...

[JollyBob]

I know very little about 3rd, perhaps I should finally look at it.

Oh, it's not very good, as a game system its almost unplayable.

BUT, as an exercise in background, world building and narrative gaming I don't think it can be beaten.

Consider this, all the Warhammer books of the time used the same stat lines and general rules, so you could theoretically flit between 3rd Ed and Rogue Trader as part of your campaign, and even include both in your Warhammer Roleplay sessions.

In fact, when Realms of Chaos came out it was practically encouraged, and the Warhammer Siege supplement has explicit rules for combining "standard" or 40K troops with "primitive" or fantasy Armies.

The whole thing came down to three questions to which you wanted two yeses and a no as answers.

Do I have the points for it?
Does it make narrative sense?
Does my opponent object?

Get these right and the world was the crustacean of your choice.

[Elbows]

Even in 2nd edition (the best books they ever did), the Chaos Codex included options for running fantasy models, etc.

[HerbertTarkel]

Even in 2nd edition (the best books they ever did), the Chaos Codex included options for running fantasy models, etc.

Agreed! Beastmen were tough!

[pixelgeek]

Even in 2nd edition (the best books they ever did), the Chaos Codex included options for running fantasy models, etc.

This is why the One Page Rules games are so much fun