The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Cubs]

I never really took to Inquisitor as a game, and I think the sculpts showed that the sculptors were really taken out of their comfort zone. Yes, some were very nice, but most were awkward. Another thing was that as the scale gets bigger, weird proportions (GW's "Heroic Scale") look stranger and stranger. Yet, if you make the proportions more "true" on the bigger models, they stop looking like their 28mm counterparts.

It gives me no satisfaction (perhaps just a little) to say that as soon as the 'Inquisitor' stuff first came out I called it as a dead end, because of the scale. For whatever reason, bigger scale stuff like that just doesn't hold enough interest.

I recall the large scale plastic models Citadel brought out in the mid 80's (many of which still survive in people's collections as giants). Although I suspect it was a way for them to hone their skills before moving into plastics for 28mm scale, still the initial novelty of them just didn't last.

[Major_Gilbear]

It gives me no satisfaction (perhaps just a little) to say that as soon as the 'Inquisitor' stuff first came out I called it as a dead end, because of the scale. For whatever reason, bigger scale stuff like that just doesn't hold enough interest.

Same here.

The biggest issues by a long way are:

1) Cost. Sorry, you may only need a few figures, but they are much more expensive than 28mm figures as they are some 6-8 times the volume in metal.

2) Lack of model range. Every converted version of Devotee Malicant or Preacher Josef, or whoever, basically looked like a slightly modified version of the original model. SG/Fanatic did try and help this somewhat with new sculpts, but the scale was all over the place between models which made conversions even harder.

3) Game scale. Rifles that shoot at the equivalent of 48m in "real" scale are silly enough, but the table limits this even more drastically for Inquisitor. We don't all have a 8' x 16' table to play on...

4) Terrain. You need a fair old bit, especially if you need to represent different narrative locations. And, it all needs to be in a scale that largely doesn't work with any other game you are likely to own. Great!

5) Clunky rules. Not much more to say here really. A simpler D20-based game could easily have been written, and the extra space in the book given over to more skills, equipment, and character templates instead.

The above means that if you buy a few models, make a bit of terrain, and play a few games (that take a while to play out), you will likely get bored of the game pretty fast. Unless that is, you keep buying more models and making more terrain. Even so, it still has very limited replay value, especially compared to a proper pen-and-paper Inquisitor-themed RPG which lets you do all the same things for cheap and simples.

[Modhail]

You know, the biggest improvement I've seen made to Inquisitor consisted of two simple swap-outs: Swap the 54mm miniatures for 28mm ones, and swap the entire ruleset for the Necromunda one... 

[Major_Gilbear]

@ Modhail:

Exactly! 

I still think Inquisitor would be aces played at 28mm scale with the Infinity ruleset. But I personally cannot be bothered to do the conversion myself, nor to clean up the Infinity rules into something that more people can understand.

[Modhail]

Ooooh, that IS an exciting concept, but sadly I don't think I can be bothered either, especially since I somehow consistently fail at making heads or tails of the Infinity ruleset... Got no-one locally who plays it, so all I can do is read the rules, and go "huh?"  I've always found their reactionary actions quite intriguing.

[Dr. Zombie]

I quite like the Inquisitor rules. They are great for a narrative game. Some time ago we played a game with the Inquisitor rules and G.I. JOE figures. That was awesome. As we could position the figures to be kneeling and prone. And swap weapons and such.

But I do agree that the scale is stupid. But you can just use 28mm minis. There is no need to do any conversion.

[nic-e]

I quite like the Inquisitor rules. They are great for a narrative game. Some time ago we played a game with the Inquisitor rules and G.I. JOE figures. That was awesome. As we could position the figures to be kneeling and prone. And swap weapons and such.

But I do agree that the scale is stupid. But you can just use 28mm minis. There is no need to do any conversion.

"in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only toys'r'us"

I seem to recall reading once that inquisitor want written to be a roleplaying game and the design time were amazed to find that people were using it as one. Apparently it was meant to be a sort of 40k gladiator style wrestling match where you just beat the snot out of each other.

[Major_Gilbear]

I seem to recall reading once that inquisitor want written to be a roleplaying game and the design time were amazed to find that people were using it as one. Apparently it was meant to be a sort of 40k gladiator style wrestling match where you just beat the snot out of each other.

Since the Inquisitor ruleset was based on the original Confrontation rules (the precursor to Necromunda), I'm a bit surprised that that's what you heard!

Further, equipment and such in Inquisitor has no points value assigned, as it is assumed that through virtue of being an RPG, the GM will "authorise" any disagreements between players on what equipment they can give their characters and also ensure that the games played are balanced.

[Cubs]

Some time ago we played a game with the Inquisitor rules and G.I. JOE figures. That was awesome.

That sounds really good fun. I've got a load of old 'Action Force' SAS models in the loft (3 inch action toys, very similar to GI Joe) that I've always wanted to muck about with and turn into little vignettes. I have images of Iranian embassy balconies whizzing through my head sometimes.

I never played the Inquisitor rules themselves, but bless 'em, GW did try to peddle them hard in WD for a couple of years didn't they? Talk about flogging that expired pony.

[Too Bo Coo]

@ Modhail:

Exactly! 

I still think Inquisitor would be aces played at 28mm scale with the Infinity ruleset. But I personally cannot be bothered to do the conversion myself, nor to clean up the Infinity rules into something that more people can understand.

I've not heard great things about the complexity of the Infinity ruleset.  Once you 'get it' I heard it was great, but it was a game that was best taught, not read, to learn.  I'm hoping 3e is clearer, it looks like a great game

[Vermis]

I never played the Inquisitor rules themselves, but bless 'em, GW did try to peddle them hard in WD for a couple of years didn't they? Talk about flogging that expired pony.

It's not as expired as all that.

http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/

You might not read articles about a game you're not interested in, and it might be just one notice nailed to one fencepost, but it's still out there.

[Major_Gilbear]

I've not heard great things about the complexity of the Infinity ruleset.  Once you 'get it' I heard it was great, but it was a game that was best taught, not read, to learn.  I'm hoping 3e is clearer, it looks like a great game

It *is* a great game, and it *is* badly explained in the rulebook. I too hope that 3E will be simpler.

One of it's biggest issues though is that it doesn't "simplify" well because it is  very carefully balanced, and so anything that removes the complexity upsets that balance notably.

I also have yet to see a videoed battle report in which the game is properly explained or even played correctly. One of the key reasons for this is that there is a "poker mechanic" in which you all eyeball the table and models when you declare your actions (and reactions), and then you move models, measure distances, roll dice, and generally resolve the actions... However, most people grab and move models as they declare actions, and that actually makes a lot of the subsequent rules too hard to follow properly since it breaks the sequence of doing things (and it also makes a number if important rules pointless).

Anyway, that's enough OT for this thread! 

[Ajsalium]

Going back to WFB...

It's confirmed that next edition will be a skirmish game. Bigger than Mordheim, but obviously smaller than what WFB is now. It's also going to be really simplified (for the 10 yo's). Those undead riders on dragon zombies (yes, those are supposed to be dragon zombies...) have only one line of stats, instead of having both rider and mount stats. Also, after a few decades of "the impeding doom of Chaos"... they forget about their fluff and flavour, and choose a different baddie to "end" things. Nagash will kill pretty much everyone, and Bretonia or Empire will be no more. Only a few survivors. Elves are going to teleport themselves to an UFO, or something (the UFO thing is my joke, the teleportation ain't).

Why the change for a skirmish type of game? Who knows, perhaps someone has noted that their tactics are failing, and no one bothers expending way so much cash to get a playable army. Perhaps they are looking at the success of Warmahordes. Or perhaps now that the LotR/Hobbit franchise is about to end, they've noticed that scale of games were more popular that WFB.
Anyway I find it ironic that WFB may turn into a Fantasy Rogue Trader now that 40K has turned into a mass battle game.

[YPU]

To all in the above post, SAY WHAT?

[Ajsalium]

I had heard those rumours (as pretty much everyone else) some time ago (first, at a spaniard blog that seems to always have some decent info on GW).
And the above was confirmed by a GW store manager.

Actually, even though I'm worried about the further sillinessation of the rules (and as a former Chaos players pissed off that it wasn't Archaon who "ended the times"), the idea of a skirmish level WFB interests me. This has the potential for something very good.

...

I know. I'll be disappointed. Or I won't be able to afford it.