The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[3 fingers]

Prefer the original stealers and termies,and still not forgiven GW for canning dark future.

[eilif]

Prefer the original stealers and termies,and still not forgiven GW for canning dark future.

Dang, you sure know how to hold a grudge!
;-)

Thinking about Space Hulk reminds me that GW used to truely be a workshop making games.  I just bought the FFG card game "Chaos Mauraders" which is a reprint of a game that GW did in 1987. 40k and WHFB have been their prime focuses for well over 2 decades, but they used to have a variety of other games as well, even beyond such formerly headlining games as Necromunda, Mordheim and Epic (Pre "specialist games" days).

It's kind of a shame that in their catalog right now, GW really only has 4 games: 40k, WHFB, LOTR and Spacehulk (which barely counts as "in catalog")

That said, at least FFG is picking up the slack for 3-Game-Workshop.

[Tactalvanic]

It's kind of a shame that in their catalog right now, GW really only has 4 games: 40k, WHFB, LOTR and Spacehulk (which barely counts as "in catalog")

... is LOTR not just a variant of WHFB? Also the next thing to be abandoned 

Also space hulk just a constant limited edition product, so... as its not officially always available.. not a regular catalogue product?

So 2 product ranges,

Although, 40K and WHFB  are they not really just fantasy and Sci-Fi versions of the same kind of game - with variably knobs on depending on edition/revision/version....

So... just the one product range then?

That should get some debating going.
 

[Major_Gilbear]

Although, 40K and WHFB  are they not really just fantasy and Sci-Fi versions of the same kind of game - with variably knobs on depending on edition/revision/version....

To be fair, they are quite different. Yes, you have the hit/wound/save rolls in both, but even armour saves and such are handled differently.

And LOTR is again quite different to both. I don't really like the LOTR rules, but lots of folks appreciate their simplicity (and indeed, the rules have been used successfully as a template for other games). For example, somebody on LAF suggested using the rules for Star Wars games, which I thought was a great idea.

So, to sum up:

- Could the rules for 40K/WHFB be better? Yes.
- Could the rules for 40K/WHFB be more fun? Yes.
- Are the rules for 40K/WHFB the same? No, not really.

[Tactalvanic]

- Could the rules for 40K/WHFB be better? Yes.
- Could the rules for 40K/WHFB be more fun? Yes.
- Are the rules for 40K/WHFB the same? No, not really.

Great clarification, so should considering the above and that they could both be better and more fun, do you think the next editions that must be pending imminent release, because the current rules editions are at least months old now... be any better/improved or just cost more?

Been years since I played I freely admit, and I certainly don't have recent rules books over than the pocket versions in some boxed sets - I should dig them out and browse maybe over a cuppa sometime.

How long do  people thinks the current Hobbit stuff has before its quietly dropped?

[Major_Gilbear]

Great clarification, so should considering the above and that they could both be better and more fun, do you think the next editions that must be pending imminent release, because the current rules editions are at least months old now... be any better/improved or just cost more?

Been years since I played I freely admit, and I certainly don't have recent rules books over than the pocket versions in some boxed sets - I should dig them out and browse maybe over a cuppa sometime.

The core rules of some of the editions are actually pretty good, fast, and fun. I liked 2nd, 3rd and 4th editions of 40k, but once the Codexes and extras came out, they all quickly stopped being much fun.

A key "problem" is that people wanted more chrome to reflect the background, and seemed less bothered by streamlined mechanics. Mind you, part of this is due to the insistence on using D6, but still.

Another issue is that they seem surprisingly unable to forsee what rules they will need each edition to properly represent each army/faction, so you get loads and loads of subsequent bolt-ons that are codex-specific (and which massively bog the game down). Each edition then tries to add some of these rules back in (the introduction of the Universal Special Rules), but then these are never complete and compact enough, so each codex once again gets new rules. A good example of this are the Eldar, whose Shuriken guns in 6th/7th edition have a special rule that's like a special rule in the main book, but not.

Few of the rulesets scale very well either. If you want to play bigger/smaller games than a narrow accepted "standard", you quickly find that the rules fall apart and the game isn't much fun. The problem here is that GW want players to keep playing with bigger armies each time, and it's just not practical at 28/30mm scale for a variety of reasons (which are already well-documented in this thread).

It's a shame really, as all the ingredients are there for a really great game... But GW just doesn't seem to know how to do much more than present you with gristly sausages and burnt toast for the price of a champagne dinner.  

How long do  people thinks the current Hobbit stuff has before its quietly dropped?

Hmm, depends.

Will anybody else pick up the license if GW drop it? If so, will GW care?

Once the Hobbit is done though, I doubt the current license will be especially attractive to GW or others.

And, certainly at the current prices/materials, I doubt most of GW's customers will give a flying toss if it's dropped or not. For instance, I liked the plastic eagles (which are generic anyway), but I'm totally unfussed by any of the Hobbit releases, and I've only ever played a game or two LOTR.

[Streetline]

How long do  people thinks the current Hobbit stuff has before its quietly dropped?

I've seen some dates on other LOTR forums that claim license end dates of Dec 2015 for the Hobbit and sometime in 2017 for the other LOTR ranges.  But I always thought they had three licenses - The Hobbit; the LOTR films; and the more generic Tolkein one they used to produce Scouring of the Shire, Shadow and Flame, and other non-flim related stuff.  So who knows.

JDE

[eilif]

... is LOTR not just a variant of WHFB? Also the next thing to be abandoned...

...Although, 40K and WHFB  are they not really just fantasy and Sci-Fi versions of the same kind of game - with variably knobs on depending on edition/revision/version....That should get some debating going.

LotR is a very different system. The main similarity is that they share a similar to-wound chart, but beyond that, they diverge quite a bit. Interestingly LotR is the base mechanics set that gave us "Legends of the Old West"

Regarding continued life of LotR, I've spent a bit of time on LotR forums recently and even the most ardent fans of the game all see LotR/Hobbit as being in it's last days/years. Looking at the GW website, the "War of the Ring" book for large battles is oop, and a couple of the big sourcebooks that are necessary for gaming in middle earth like "Free Peoples" are out of stock.  The general consensus seems to be that once the movies are gone, the game will linger on for a year or so and be let go when the license runs out. I would be surprised if LotR is still around in 2017, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's gone before then.

As for WHFB and WH40k being the same game, not much of a debate there, as most folks seem to know they're completely different games.   

That said, at the beginning of 40k with Rogue Trader and even somewhat into 2nd edition, you would have been right.  There was an incredible cross-compatibility between the two games.  IIRC, the realms of Chaos books were compatible between the two systems.   Since then however, they've really gone their separate ways.

[Vermis]

Nicely said, you guys. Didn't Kirby also mention LotR/Hobbit as a 'millstone' that would soon be gone, in the last annual report? (You know, the one that leads off "It's been a great year! If you count losing piles of money as 'great'!")

Looking at the GW website, the "War of the Ring" book for large battles is oop

No huge loss, if I can say so. I've read it; that's why I'm going with Mayhem for big LotR battles.

[Major_Gilbear]

Space Marine, just out of bed and still in his dressing gown, supping his morning coffee from his favourite Skull-mug (TM):

[Tactalvanic]

  That said, at the beginning of 40k with Rogue Trader and even somewhat into 2nd edition, you would have been right.  There was an incredible cross-compatibility between the two games.  IIRC, the realms of Chaos books were compatible between the two systems.   Since then however, they've really gone their separate ways.

Sadly, or gladly (bit of both) I must admit to being from that era, and way back then went cold turkey for many years regards this wonder of a hobby.

Its that kind of cross compatibility I remember, and have not put the modern rules sets together in detail to compare, but then I don't need to as there is plenty of informed people here who already know 

love the space marine and his skull-coffee...TM?

and its a frowny skull-mug to (TM).

[Cubs]

Space Marine, just out of bed and still in his dressing gown, supping his morning coffee from his favourite Skull-mug (TM):

You can imagine the other Space Marines gossiping around the blood cooler in the common room when he stomps in ...

"Ooh, look what the cat dragged in."
"Yes ... somebody slept in their armour last night didn't they?"

[Timbor]

But I thought Space Marines were fused to their body armour?  Or has that background been changed?

[eilif]

But I thought Space Marines were fused to their body armour?  Or has that background been changed?

I think the old fluff (could be wrong here) was that they had a layer fused to their skin to enable them to interact with their armor.  I think that has gone by the wayside, as I don't recall it being mentioned recently.

[Momotaro]

Having the narthecium (?) med-injector and a chainfist on the same wrist is just asking for trouble too.

"Just have a sip of coffee..." *bzzzz* "aargh my eye!!!" *pfft* "groovy, man..."