The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[beefcake]

Aren't Red Box Games elves named "aelf"?

[Dolmot]

Whenever I hear/read that name, I'm reminded of Ælftor...

(It was a one-off strip, by the way. The rest of that comic is a bit different.)

[Duncan McDane]

Got the White Dwarf yesterday, read the background, looked at the free model and skimmed across the rules.

Forget about WFB, this is a completely new game. WFB is dead. The reason they put up war scrolls for free for every unit in WFB 8th is nothing more than a service to existing players, hoping they will give AoS a go ( my interpretation ).
The background is sort of promising. I think we can expect lots and lots of campaign books and boxed sets. After all, what you get in the starter box are nothing more than the opening moves in the quest for Sigmar to recover control of the corrupted 9 realms.
Demo players report the contents of the box are pretty balanced. Not seen them yet, but If I'm correct in the book there will be some kind of mini-campaign to get you started. 6 scenario's...
And, lets be honest. Swordmasters of Hoeth, balanced or not? Does it really matter?  In AoS there will be no longer High Elfs, or Swordmasters, or Hoeth, or Ulthuan for that matter. I guess the existing WFB units will be fased out as soon as their A0S descendants will hit the shelves.
The Sigmarine that came with it is at first glance a bit mehhh. After putting it together it looks better, but still not to my taste. Chronopia players will recognise the style. And remember, these are not humans. They are sparks of his chosen champions a long time ago, lightning flows through their vains ( yaddayaddayadda, you get the point ) but basically they are just suits of armour containing a life essence. So you can choose to pick whatever armoured model you like, if you don't want to spend money on GW/AoS.  
What doesn't help is the ( imho ) horrible choice of colours GW chose for the Sigmarines. A prelude to the Ultramarines maybe? I'll have a go at the model - when I feel like it - but probably will go for a more Royal Knightly/Crusader look, white plate armour with gold and/or red decoration.

I will get the starter box ( on a discount, of course, no need to rush   ) and will give it a fair try. I've left WFB after the 4th edition, because of the models, the pricing, the powered-up rules and a few more reasons, but as this is a new game, why not? Don't expect me to buy GW miniatures though, I will use my old selection of models as I don't like to spend hours putting together plastic kits from models I don't like at prices I don't want to spend on sprues to have a game.

[3 fingers]

Preordered it at local GameShop, he gets discount,think it's £67 ?
Almost a bargain by GW standards.
Ideal for me and my ten year old son . 

[Skyven]

Well, AOS isn't for me having read the rules and perused the warscrolls.

I'm glad that I got the army books that still interested me last month, and I'll look to fill the gaps in my 8th version armies over the next few months. I think it is telling that the minimum unit size for, say, goblins is only 10 compared to current box size of 20, so I assume that they'll soon be halving the size of the box and increasing the price with repackaging.

The only thing form AOS that might interest me so far is the scenery.

[Vermis]

Agreed 100%. But after a few conversations with friends who are seemingly quite taken with AoS, that means I'm against the concept of 'fun', and that since fantasy is about 'having a laugh' (or, as you say, acting like a tool) I should give up on something I liked and go play 'boring' Napoleonics...  

Sorry, had to read that a couple of times to make sure I wasn't the one at fault. I've been chewed out for something like that before: telling people they can just try some other game if Warhammer loses it's sparkle, when the rest of their group is firmly fixated on GW and won't look elsewhere. I don't think there's any easy answer to that. (For me to move on from GW took my group of vets to be cleared out of the store, and onto kitchen tables and into clubs we never knew existed) But like I say, I honestly think the novelty of AoS might wear off quicker than usual.

The attitude that fantasy is just a bit of nonsense and frippery, and to pot with any notions of consistency, dignity or game balance, is something that's irritated me for a long time. Anyone who remembers me from the sweaty armpit of the internet (aka Frothers) might remember my old, embarrassingly demented rants about dragon anatomy, for example.
Aye, fantasy's more a type of escapism, and not so serious, consequential and set-in-stone as history (or so some historical players would have you believe), and I'm far from opposed to mixing up themes and stories and having fun with them, like Mars' dwarf games or Scurv's example just below your post. Even one of my old moans about dragons was that they seem to be converging on one slab-scaled, fangy-snarled, tyrannosaurus-with-wings-and-steroids style, and fewer people were mixing it up like D&D, Grenadier etc used to.
But in Mars' case at least, I know he chose some tight, well-written rulesets to have fun with. (Sorry Scurv, don't know your rules preferences) That's my likes in a nutshell. It's only my opinion and one way of doing things, but I prefer fantasy that has a solid framework, drawing from history or real life, having an internal consistency, having a well thought-out and balanced ruleset or whatever. Something to get your teeth into. Then you can go as serious or wacky as you like with it. 'Anything goes', in official setting or rules, just looks too sloppy and bores me silly before too long.

I mentioned the latest issue of W:SS. Richard 'Too Fat Lardies' Clarke's column in it was on a similar topic. He was having a pop at historical gamers dismissing the whole hobby as 'just a game' (in fact I think he went a bit much like the 'historicals = srs bsns' thing in some places) but some points jumped out at me.

Unlike darts, where the participants simply chuck arrows at a board, or football, where they kick a ball about and fall to the ground crying occasionally, wargaming is a multifarious hobby, where the vast majority of us are also interested in the soldiers, the strategy, and indeed, the general history of warfare...
Frankly, if some people feel I'm wrong and that it is indeed "just a game", then that's fine by me... What does concern me is the on-line reaction those who stood up for wargaming as a learning tool were met with - at best ridicule, at worst vitriol. Their crime? To stand up for the hobby they enjoy.

I like the soldiers, strategy and history aspects of wargaming myself, as much as it applies to fantasy. I like recreating certain armies or characters. I like taxing myself in a wargame, same as taxing myself with sculpting, a game of sudoku or The Lords of Midnight or whatever, even chucking arrows or kicking a football if the situation arises. It's one way to go about wargaming. Chucking dice while mucking about with your mates is another way. Can't understand the attitude that the latter is the sole province of fantasy, laxity and 'fun', while the former is just for historicals and dry simulations, too serious and 'boring'. Especially when there's been so much overlap - WFB to WAB, Warmaster to Warmaster Ancients and Hail Caesar et al, DBX to HoTT, and many other fantasy adaptations of historical sets, historical army lists for fantasy sets, etc. Whether you're playing Napoleonics or nose-picking orcs shouldn't make much difference to the elegance of the rules or, indeed, the fun.

This should be the marketing tagline. It's honest, to the point and sums it all up very nicely.

Well I wish them good luck with that 'Aelf' is one of several Old English terms for Elf. They'd have more chance copyrighting the term 'Space Marine'... oh wait...

 

Aye, that! GW made a game based on old fantasy settings and tropes, decided it wasn't very easily defended with copyrights and trademarks, blew it up, and started a new game based on... old settings and tropes...

I will get the starter box ( on a discount, of course, no need to rush   ) and will give it a fair try. I've left WFB after the 4th edition, because of the models, the pricing, the powered-up rules and a few more reasons, but as this is a new game, why not? Don't expect me to buy GW miniatures though, I will use my old selection of models as I don't like to spend hours putting together plastic kits from models I don't like at prices I don't want to spend on sprues to have a game.

Can't argue with that!

I think it is telling that the minimum unit size for, say, goblins is only 10 compared to current box size of 20, so I assume that they'll soon be halving the size of the box and increasing the price with repackaging.

I've been wondering if the reduced game size might lead to that kind of thing, again.

[Genialjim]

I think GW's espousal of this new  Manichaean vision is just part of a scheme to prepare us all for CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN

[Storm Wolf]

Well I had a bit of a shock today

went to bluewater to watch terminator genysis with my son,  and GW bluewater is gone as is lakeside. So no telling whats going down with the corporate suits.

I don't go to bluewater too often, but still I am quite surprised to put it mildly

Glen

[FramFramson]

With the rules for Josef Bugman (+1 Bravery if I'm holding a drink), the Thane with Battle Standard (reroll any failed hits if I have a bigger beard than my opponent), and Longbeards (bonus rule for the unit if I complain in a suitably Dwarfish manner about how things used to be better), it looks like showing up to an Age of Sigmar tournament unshaven, drinking from a hip flask, and complaining about how AoS sucks compared to previous editions is no longer a tournament faux pas, but actually a viable tactic.

What a time to be alive.

[beefcake]

 

[Connectamabob]

I just like internal consistency. If it's joke game, that good. If it's a serious game, that's good. Only thing that bugs me is when either the game or a player starts going "off model" after they've spent deliberate effort setting up particular expectations one way or another.

I enjoy both paradigms, just, y'know, if you set things up to be a serious game, don't suddenly try to lawyer in a silly anime bunny girl character "just because". If it's a non-serious popcorn adventure, don't bitch at me for my silly anime bunny girl character. That's really all I'd ask of both other players and fluff/rules writers.

[Arlequín]

I've always found that the people I have played with have always managed to inject enough humour themselves, without the need for the rules to push them to.

Let's face it, how many times can you hear the same joke and still laugh? 

[Major_Gilbear]

I've always found that the people I have played with have always managed to inject enough humour themselves, without the need for the rules to push them to.

Let's face it, how many times can you hear the same joke and still laugh? 

Exactly - couldn't have put it better myself.

I'm already reasonably silly at key moments during many games with good friends (and we do try and vary the jokes... mostly), but I'd prefer to make the judgement on when that's appropriate behaviour for myself.

I am however amazed on other forums how this seems to have been the most divisive thing since the invention of Marmite. I mean, more than anything else about AoS. 

[Tactalvanic]

I think its ok. Really.

Its all going to be alright.

Its going to be ok.

Don't worry.

WFB is just taking a little tiny holiday.

If it really does look like AOS is panning big time, they will:

1. release version 2 with either new joke rules or take them out.
2. move forward Sigmar's glorious re-unification of the 9 realms/colours/whatever, and suddenly, lo! WFB 9th Edition is born!

Everybody can get back to the same world and unending war.

Then Everyone can denounce them for Killing off AOS.

 

Of course with suitable price increases, repackaging to smaller box/unit contents, etc.

AOS Miniatures will be moved forward in time to re-emerge in the distant dark !WAR!FOREVER!EMP'OR! future that is 40.5k  revive the emporer from the golden throne (really Sigmar having a long nap), stick on a few backpack powerpacks and go - new edition 40K rules, with stupid joke rules about helmets and codpieces etc, and bigger miniatures.

Do I need to mention hex bases again or would that be to over the top?

 

[Major_Gilbear]

Do I need to mention hex bases again or would that be to over the top?

No, no need; I expect the next incarnation to have dispensed with all bases completely.

You will instead be expected to buy a complicated overhead model suspension system, complete with fake plastic servo skull adornments, and there will be on launch a limited edition version of the same that comes with a clamp so that you can attach it to the side of the gaming table for play (and comes in a canvas bag that adds £100.00 to the regular RRP cost).  So, all very Terry Gilliam really. 

Rules-wise, I expect the next edition will award all sorts of weapon bonuses for the players who actually make the sounds of their models' weapons being used, and armour bonuses for the players who act out the pantomime of their models being struck by said weapons. Victory points will be determined at the end via a single round of rock-paper-scissors, modified by the final score difference (this outcome will require an FAQ to resolve, but that will never actually be released - instead the FAQ will just correct an IP name spelling to be more IP-protectable).