Calling Napoleonic experts on the Russian Army

[ARKOUDAKI]

As the title says, I am in need of some expertise of any of you Russian Nap experts out there. Here are my questions and they are very 'button' oriented :smt045

Here is the situation, I took the plunge and decided to build a Russian Nap army using the Perry's plastic Russians as a basis. So I am in the process of cleaning them up - a tedious job for sure  - and one of the key bits for me involves removing all the mold lines. So having done that I also replace the buttons on the sleeves and gaiters with plasticard using my Waldron miniature punch and die set (an expensive but indispensable tool!!!!!!!). So the questions that come to mind are as follows:

(1) For the Russian Nap summer pants, is four buttons on the gaiters as Alan has sculpted correct??? I ask because having look through loads of graphics I see many of them had 8 buttons (9 if using the black coverall bootie thing) while some have just 5 buttons....So which is correct??

(2) Alan has sculpted 2 buttons on each sleeve cuff (like he did the Prussian Naps) but my references show 3 buttons were used....So which is correct??

Please note that I have looked through all my Russian Nap resources - which is a lot of info - and haven't found definitive answers to the above questions. Thus, I am hoping one of you knows the answer and/or can point me to the reference. Hence my plea for further assistance.

[Aaron]

I am certainly no expert, but some of these original coats appear to have only two buttons. http://georgianworld.tripod.com/russianuniforms/ . Of course, this print from around 1812 clearly shows three. http://georgianworld.tripod.com/uniforms/pic20.jpg. I suspect the difference may have to do with the regiments involved and/or the time period.
I I haven't dug through Viskovatov, but maybe the answer is in there? http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info/V10BAll.htm

[capt.carson]

Irrespective of the correct answer it may be worth trying a test with the eight buttons. It may be right but may not look right once painted. Viz a viz cartoon hands having one less finger.

The best book I had on the subject was one by Nafziger. Sadly when times were tough some time ago I sold it to chap in Canberra.

[ARKOUDAKI]

Thanks for the links Aaron...I previously checked Viskovatov reference but I am aware that more recent research shows that he didn't get it right...more fun for me.

Capt Carson, yes, I have the Russian Army booklet by Nafziger but sadly it doesn't shed light on the subject. I do however see what you mean with the 8 buttons, as it looks rather crowded...and I can't get the buttons any smaller then I have....plus, given that I have 270 Perry plastic Russians and that means 540 legs, multiplied by X number of buttons, means my life is going to be pretty exciting....

[Elk101]

I have a booklet entitled 'The Russian Army 1805-1814' by Anschluss Publishing (1977) that states that the tunic had three buttons on the cuff flap. However, apparently the ten new musketeer regiments from 1806 had slightly different uniforms with five buttons to the cuff flap. These units were not apparently uniformed in the Inspection colours. It seems that the uniforms were in use for less than a year and suggests that many full new uniforms were never actually issued. Things like this can show how easily confusion can develop though.

As regards the breeches and gaiters, full parade and summer campaign dress lists 'white cloth breeches with the outer seam below the knee slit and fastened with eight cloth coloured buttons'. It also references the winter dress heavy knee length gaiters and the brass button fasteners used but does not state the number of buttons. It is also mentioned that contemporary illustrations often show all types of legwear in use during most periods.

The guard would have had lace decoration to their buttonholes on the cost cuff flaps.

None of my other books specifically state button numbers (that I've found with a quick scan) but Haythornthwaite shows three cuff flap buttons in his book 'Uniforms of Napoleon's Russian Campaign'.

Ultimately though, I wouldn't be bothered with all that work! You must have the patience of a saint! 

[ARKOUDAKI]

Ultimately though, I wouldn't be bothered with all that work! You must have the patience of a saint!  Smiley

Come on, doesn't everyone use their Waldron sub-miniature punch and die set to make around 600 small dots using really thin plasticard, and then scrap off the old and glue on the new...doesn't that sound like fun!!!!!!

[Greystreak]

No special 'expertise' claimed here, but I have answered your queries in a PM on the another Forum known for figure painting. 

[grant]

I just googled your Waldron tool. 

[ARKOUDAKI]

Grant, a must-have tool: http://www.hyperscale.com/2011/reviews/tools/waldronpunchanddiereviewbg_1.htm

[grant]

Definitely getting one 

[Elk101]

Looked it up too; I must admit it's a 'cool tool'! 

[H.M.Stanley]

Ultimately though, I wouldn't be bothered with all that work!

I associate myself with this post 

[ARKOUDAKI]

Okay, not at all on my topic but if anyone is serious about buying the Waldron tool you can get them from Roll Models in the USA. If you buy the sub-miniature set and intend on using the very small punches then I would strongly suggest you buy some extras, as they are tiny and after 100s of hammers do tend to bend, making them useless.

All that said, here is some info that you might find useful:

http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=234229&st=0&p=2233248&hl=punch%20&%20die%20set&fromsearch=1&#entry2233248

These are some articles on how-to make your own punch and die set:

http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=93534&st=0&p=796224&hl=punch%20&%20die%20set&fromsearch=1&#entry796224

http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1358879993/...

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[grant]

Okay, not at all on my topic but if anyone is serious about buying the Waldron tool you can get them from Roll Models in the USA. If you buy the sub-miniature set and intend on using the very small punches then I would strongly suggest you buy some extras, as they are tiny and after 100s of hammers do tend to bend, making them useless.

All that said, here is some info that you might find useful:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1358879993/...

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very useful indeed! Thanks for the tips.

You've got me thinking about my Naps again!

[nvrsaynvr]

Huh?