Heroquest returns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elbows]

Eh, I'd like to be angry about it...but Hero Quest was a cool board game.  If the owners of the copyright sit on it and do nothing with it - I don't care if someone shamelessly copies it.  I do think they should simply change the name of the game and be done with it.  I'm looking for a cool dungeon crawl boardgame I can introduce to my nephew in the next few years and if I get a bunch of cool minis in the process awesome.

I feel like wasted/dormant/neglected IP's should be brought into dispute on occasion to let people know they're wasting stuff that could be good (look at the 20+ years Robotech floundered in the damn US because of how stupid Palladium/Harmony Gold were...and then they do a little game kickstarter and realize the entire damn world is still nuts over the stuff). 

[beefcake]

What they have in the game looks cool so far (not that there is much to go on except ideas) I'd be happy with a name change and the have it flung back up on KS instead,

[Ajsalium]

Which would be entirely fair, had they bought the copyrights. But they haven't - they've simply registered the name Heroquest as a trademark in Spain. The copyrights to all the original game material remain with the original companies. That's why Gamezone are having to make a different game, just using the name.

They have a trademark name, not copyright on the game.

That's why I think the whole '25th anniversary edition' bit is such a shameless rip-off; they are implying that the game is theirs - when in fact they just have a name.

First.
Copyright. The right to make copies. They are not going to make copies, they are releasing a new version of the game.

Second.
Trademark. The right to use a name. Hasbro has lost it for not doing anything with it for years. Gamezone, or any other company, has the right to register said abandoned trademark, and use it with a product of their own.

That's not morals. That's law. If you don't like it... well, it doesn't matter, because (thankfully) we are governed by laws.

[Lovejoy]

First.
Copyright. The right to make copies. They are not going to make copies, they are releasing a new version of the game.

Strictly speaking, it also covers the right to adapt the original work into an altered form... so a new version of the game, claiming a heritage to the original, would breach copyright... but IANAL, so take it with a pinch of salt!

Second.
Trademark. The right to use a name. Hasbro has lost it for not doing anything with it for years. Gamezone, or any other company, has the right to register said abandoned trademark, and use it with a product of their own.

That's not morals. That's law. If you don't like it... well, it doesn't matter, because (thankfully) we are governed by laws.

Yes, I agree with you. In Spain, certainly, they've secured a lapsed trademark. They've grabbed Space Crusade too. I'm not arguing the legal side at all... my objection is purely a moral one. Obviously that makes it a personal position, and I'm not trying to force others to agree with me - simply saying how I feel about the situation. I also reserve the right to buy a copy of the game at a later date if I decide I like it enough.  Self-interest usually trumps morality sooner or later! 

[Laughing Ferret]

If they were making the game out of the tears of children I might take a stance on morality, but if it's a grey area of IP & Trademark where the originators have sat on it for years without showing interest in doing anything with it, I don't see the issue so much. 

That said, now that they got everyone's attention, if it's a good game, with good sculpts, and owes no more to the original than a name and the vague concept of 'dungeon crawl' then I would think it would be better to just make a new game name and eliminate any obstacles to release & sell & promote anywhere they want.  Make something new, stamp a new name to build upon and clear away any future obstacles.

This is a word of mouth/internet link industry and 'Gamezone sculpts with a Heroquest-like dungeon crawl', I would think, is going to get just as much traffic as 'Gamezone is releasing a new version of Heroquest' especially when people find out the rules of the game are different than the original.

We're not talking about grabbing the IP & Trademark of Monopoly, where non-gamers are going to see it on the shelf at Target and pick it up for nephew Billy for xmas. The name already got the attention of the gamers.  It also raised everyone's hackles in fear of a failed project due to threat of litigation, so why not bank the interest gained & side step the fears and release the game with a brand new name that is free & clear their own?

Just my opinion born of instinct & inexperience, but there it is.

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

Hey, I know, lets copy an old game and make loads of money from the idea, and not give any of the money to the people who made it good in the first place, or the people whos idea we are selling! Lets change the names just enough so they cant legally get us, and also perform a load of sly tricks so we can claim this is ours, even though we are copying somthing someone else made up! While we are at it, lets imply that we have some sort of connection to the original designers but we dont, so lets make quarter of a million making a copy of a game and selling it under false pretenses on the back of nostalgia!

[beefcake]

Well they tried to start it up on the Spanish funding site, Verkami, but it got pulled after few hours. I don't think I'll be backing this if they keep the name heroquest for it any more.

[Barbarian]

By the way, game mechanics aren't subject to copyright.
(see Wings of War and Star wars : X-wing)

If they want to use the exact same rules, they can.

[Lovejoy]

By the way, game mechanics aren't subject to copyright.
(see Wings of War and Star wars : X-wing)

If they want to use the exact same rules, they can.

Bit of a weird area, this... the rules themselves cannot be protected, but the words and phrasing are protected. So you can use the same rules, but have to re-word them.

[driller]

Hey, I know, lets copy an old game and make loads of money from the idea, and not give any of the money to the people who made it good in the first place, or the people whos idea we are selling! Lets change the names just enough so they cant legally get us, and also perform a load of sly tricks so we can claim this is ours, even though we are copying somthing someone else made up! While we are at it, lets imply that we have some sort of connection to the original designers but we dont, so lets make quarter of a million making a copy of a game and selling it under false pretenses on the back of nostalgia!

^This.

This whole campaign on Gamezone's behalf was shady as shit. Their attitude regarding copyright was of a teenage kid not giving a  crap about what goes on in the growup world, hoping nobody will be too angry about it.

[Laughing Ferret]

is it a copyright issue? seems the only thing they are reusing is the name, which would be Trademark wouldn't it? And they have the right to use the name, don't they? That's what it sounded like.  The only issue is where or how they distribute a game with that name, which I am less clear on.

But doesn't seem like a copyright issue.  From the minimal info that was presented, the game seems to be different. not the same rules, not the same missions, even the board is different.. a double sides static board not modular tiles. There are a lot of Dungeon Crawl theme games, ones even earlier than Heroquest ('Dungeon!' comes to mind) and a theme is far too vague to copyright.. or TSR could have said heroes in a dungeon killing monsters was their property.  

Does Heroquest have any specific IP? I only played it a couple times, not recently, I only recall generic characters like 'wizard' or 'dwarf' which is too vague to protect as IP, which would mean there is no IP to steal.

I think it is looking like the only issue is the name.  Which if they legally acquired the right to use, I am guessing they paid for that legal right. You spend money on the right to produce under a name, you kind of expect to be able to do that. Are they trying to fine-line around international claims of the name? Maybe so.  If it isn't really a reproduction of the 'Heroquest' game, should they even be calling it Heroquest? I don't think so, but I can't go as far as saying they don't have the right to, if they bought that right.

But it doesn't sound like this is the same kind of thing as bootleg DVDs or fake Gucci bags from China. They legally acquired the right to use the name and sounds like they were under the impression that gave them the right to sell the game provided they were doing it from Spain.

If they were actually copying someone else's game and using their rules, IP and name without the legal right to do so, then yeah, that's dirty, but it doesn't sound like that is what was going on: correct if that isn't right.

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

Yeah, except they are selling it as Heroquest 25 years on, with all the same elements, just tweaked so they can get away with cashing in on another person's ideas!

If they just released a nice, solid generic dungeaon crawler with nicely mad emodels, woudl they have got the same investment?

[General Lee]

it has just been confirmed on Facebook that Verkami cancelled the funding campaign. it's over.........

[beefcake]

Well they tried to start it up on the Spanish funding site, Verkami, but it got pulled after few hours. I don't think I'll be backing this if they keep the name heroquest for it any more.

 

[pixelgeek]

Trademark. The right to use a name. Hasbro has lost it for not doing anything with it for years.

I don't think that is an issue anywhere other than the UK. I believe that they could have kept the trademarks in other countries if they had just refiled for them.