(COMMERCIAL) Ongoing issues with Black Cat Bases, recent developments: pp.21ff.

[menziestank]

omg you guys have been, and are still awaiting your orders, from that long ago? (August = 8 months and still outstanding?).

That is outrageous, simply unacceptable on the part of Black Cat Bases.  

I know paypal have the 45-day dispute period and seemingly do not even give people the option to file a claim once past the 45-day period, so you might have to seek recourse with either your credit card provider (if you have purchased via your credit card) or own local trading standards body (UK), or Better Business Bureau / Federal Trade Commission (if you're American), or similar equivalent consumer protection body (elsewhere).

If all else fails, you might have to get in touch with Hampshire Country trading standards (Black Cat Bases are based in Hampshire, UK) and write a strongly worded complaint.

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/tradingstandards.htm

In any case if buying via paypal i would normally expect at latest 1-2 weeks from purchase to delivery as standard, and the 45-day paypal yardstick I would assume to be at the stretch of most people's patience, simply because once past this limit you are now at a severe disadvantage in terms of successfully clawing your money back.

If I were you guys who have been still awaiting items since February 2014 or even longer ago, and BCB don't even begin to offer a refund (I'd say an apology is insufficient) I'd be shouting about this from the bleedin' rooftops!

[pacarat]

Quote from: cheetor on April 14, 2014, 04:47:16 AM
At least.  My order from last August is #2205.

And mine 2152...

Mine is between these two...

[menziestank]

Hello all,

Final update:

Further to my dispatch confirmation and message of apology from Black Cat Bases the other day, I have indeed finally received my items today through the post via UK 1st class recorded delivery (which I had to sign for from the postman this morning).

Thanks to all for putting up with my long posts previously, good luck to everyone else still awaiting their orders.

[Dan]

Good news for me as well. I just got an email to say my order (from August I think) has been dispatched.

[viciouscircle]

I have just contacted paypal about my order. Dont want to wait for months until they send me the miniatures if they ever do. Will keep you updated.

[Grimrod]

Still no change on my order from last june...no responses, even when I demanded a refund back in nov. I believe it was.

[viciouscircle]

For that reason i wont wait anymore. My order was just made 15 days ago but any other shop in the world would have shipped my products, blackcatbases doesnt answers my emails and messages throught web email, their own website and ebay and wont do it until paypal contacts them. If they send me the goods, fine thats what i want. If not, i will ask for a refund and end fo the story.
Its sad cause they have a lot of things im interested in, but for sure, no matter how this ends, i wont buy from them again.

[menziestank]

Hi viciouscircle, I would've though that contacting them via ebay 'contact seller link' (as pacarat has done, many posts up) might work as a longshot, would be interesting to know if this was successful, which it wasn't in your case.

Do keep us informed if the method of opening a dispute, then informing BCB of your intent to escalate the dispute in X days time (X being their 'last chance' length of time you will reasonably wait to see if they will make good your order, in my case it was almost 14 days), and see if this will provoke action on their part, like it did with me.

Also wondering if Dan did finally receive his items, as he received an email from BCB confirming dispatch.

For others e.g. Grimrod, Cheetor, Diplomatist, Pacarat, etc, if jumping up and down and making an absolute fuss to Black Cat Bases about your still-outstanding orders, I don't really know what else you can do apart from ensuring you have copies of invoices, receipts and/or other proof of purchase, and take this matter up with your credit card provider, paypal, trading standards, better business bureau, etc, for advice.

[Dr Mathias]

Thread on TMP with an interesting response from Moonfleet Miniatures:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=342986

Also some history on TMP:

Moonfleet, if you know them personally then they really need to put some effort into damage control. A message on the website and dealing with the fallout on the LAF thread would help them enormously. As it stands years of getting a good reputation are being wasted.

In this hobby people will understand illness but not sticking a few messages around advising of likely delays is doing long term damage to their reputation. On TMP alone,

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=322443

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=322889

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=319037

I've always found their service excellent and their unique range of products great. Hope they can sort it out.

[Dan]

Hi, I received my order today with an offer of a 15% discount on my next order and a note of apology.

However given that the following note has been on the website for a month or so.

"I apologise for the delay on dispatch of orders, this has been due to severe and unexpected ill health. Also our internet has been down for a long period of time and so I have been unable to access anything! Ben is now home from the hospital making it possible for me to cast orders while looking after him. We would like to thank everyone for their patience whilst we have had problems. This is most unlike us especially for any length of time. You will receive confirmation once your order has been dispatched. Once again my sincere and unreserved apologies!"


 I'm finding it a bit hard to believe that people would order and then expect to get prompt turn around on their orders made in the last couple of weeks? 

[Dr. Zombie]

I am still really hoping that they get back on thair feet. I have so much stuff I want from them. But I am going to wait until things have stabilised again.

[pixelgeek]

I'm finding it a bit hard to believe that people would order and then expect to get prompt turn around on their orders made in the last couple of weeks? 

What if you don't hit their front page? What if you go directly to a product page?

If you can't fill orders in a timely fashion and you have a huge backlog then the simplest thing to do is shut the site off, post a notice and work on filling your old orders.

Blaming people for not seeing a post on the front page is ignoring the issue of who has the ultimate responsibility for this.

[6milPhil]

Blaming people for not seeing a post on the front page is ignoring the issue of who has the ultimate responsibility for this.

Perhaps, but it's toys from a couple of which one half is really ill. It's inconvenient for us, but they're going through the mills at the moment. Maybe cut them some slack?

[pixelgeek]

Perhaps, but it's toys from a couple of which one half is really ill. It's inconvenient for us, but they're going through the mills at the moment.

It is toys. Its also people's money. And if they have a lot of backorders then it is a lot of money.

They may be in a bad situation but how is continuing to take in orders you can't fill a smart solution? Or even fair to your customers?

They are also not doing themselves any favours in a legal sense since they are in breach of their own terms on their site

Most orders for metal figures are dispatched within 5-7 working days.

Most orders for resin are dispatched within 7-10 working days in our own ranges and within 21 days for Little Green Man items in resin and for clear resin in any range.

Again, it sucks that they are in this situation and I feel for them but the solution to their problem was really simple, they chose not to do it (for whatever reasons, they may even be good reasons) and this situation continues to get out of hand.

Maybe cut them some slack?

I think if you read through my posts I have been more than sympathetic to them and their situation. What I don't have a lot of time for is people being aggressive in their defence of BCB. Blaming people for not seeing a notice on one part of their website is churlish. I've operated, installed and written code for enough e-commerce sites to know that it is simple to post warnings in your checkout section and catalogue pages to inform people of delays.

[Too Bo Coo]

I have held off from ordering from BCB for almost a year because of this.  I have to say, I'm sympathetic with people being sick.  I'm not sympathetic for people being sick AND taking money without the ability to then send the merchandise that was ordered.  Also at the risk of sounding hard hearted, this is a business and it is required to act as one.  If the store owners are unable to manage and run their business, it seems questionable and possibly illegal to accept customer's money if there is no reasonable expectation that the terms of a sale could be completed.  The only point that 'toys' is even relevant is that no one is waiting for medication or some life saving device.  But 'toys' is a meaningless excuse for customers essentially cheated out of their money.  I can only speak for myself to say that if after a few weeks it was clear I was unable to run my business, I would be very questionable myself if I was still accepting money and taking orders.  I also find the 'computer' excuse to be rather thin.  Sorry, but gotta call a spade a spade, but in the 21st century in Europe it seems rather implausible that it is true especially if sales are still happening through ebay.  No one complaining is saying that they are angry that anyone at BCB got sick and cannot run their shop, they are angry that someone at BCB got sick, they cannot run their shop, but they ARE still accepting orders and money. That's where my sympathy disappeared.