Jousting web site launch by CrossedLances

[Crossedlances]

The idea is you get five game for £40, if you want our figures great, we supply the cards to play but if you want a specific Lord they will have different specific skills, including horsemanship.

The melee guys will have, skills card for the mace, the axe, the sword and the dagger so that you can use your favourite weapon, the Lords will all have different skills with different weapons, William Marshall is awesome under this system.

We will hold Joust around the country sometime, Leeds Armouries, Stratford Armouries etc, If people want to join in then we expect them to use our figure tilts etc to play.

[Poiter50]

Shakes his head and logs off...............

[Ray Earle]

Sounds good Martin. It would be nice, when you have a couple of minutes to breathe, to see an example of play with pictures to show how the cards are used, movement is calculated etc.

I assume this is all included in the rules anyway?

Do you get all the cards you need with the rulebook or are the 'Lords' cards an extra?

Can't find those helmets in the store...  

[Crossedlances]

Hi Ray Earle

Pictures I haven't found how to load them up yet,  hexes and the cards are included, there will be other cards for those who want to build their Lord up and have his coat of arms on and have better skills!

Can't find those helmets in the store...  Sad They are in Curtseys 1st Corps web site http://www.curteysminiatures.blogspot.co.uk/ they are there I saw them this morning...!!

[black hat miniatures]

I think that for people to spent £20 you need a picture of the rulebooks and a couple of sample pages to show the standard of printing including some cards, etc.

I'd be tempted if I thought it was a fun game and the quality of the physical material was worth £20.

One thing about the website - you have "Crossed Lance's" as the title - there should be no apostrophe as it isn't a possessive.

Oh, and change the front page to say that the second rulebook or supplement will cover foot fighting - it currently sounds as though a revised second edition will be produced and that will put people off buying it.

Ah... Just noticed that the book has the same "Lance's" on it as well...

Mike

[Crossedlances]

Thanks Mike of Black Hat...much appreciated...Not tooooo bad for our first attempt.

We had a couple more blips that we were unaware of, they have now been ironed out, a description of the rules is being written today and will be included in the web site.

[Crossedlances]

We have now sent off the second set to the designer, that is the foot melee' the archer competition also the crowd events.

We will be working on the 3rd set this quarter and again these can be used with the 1st set, the second set or as a stand alone.

The crowd events will work the same way as the first set of rules I did, where 2 d6 determine other 36 events on the battle field, aides getting killed, random shots on command groups, boggy ground etc., I shared this system a few ago on TMP and it has been used in a couple of rule sets since.

The age groups we have aimed for is from 5 to 75 as non war gamers,  and of course war gamers themselves, our first advert hit the streets today in wargames illustrated.

Martin

[Mad Doc Morris]

I take it the next two volumes will be at £20 as well? Are you going to release them in bundles, preferably at reduced cost?
It's just that I find 20 bucks for under 50 pages each and without any 'extras' a bit steep, sorry.

[Crossedlances]

Two games and 30 skill cards and 15 Lord cards, in rule set 1.
In rule set 2 two different games with 30 skill cards, 30 Archer skill cards, 15 Archer cards.

This gives four different games plus an adventure type game works out at £8 a game. So the prices are just about right, otherwise its plainly just not worth doing it. If someone wants all three rules sets then yes we could probably do deal a on postage etc.  

We really don't think they are too dear, its a price I would pay, but with all the start up costs need evening out, to have the rules designed, to have them printed, the web site costs. the pay pal costs, the freed downloads we will do, etc etc.

Once we have recouped the start up costs, which are very high, we may well be able to drop the prices some in the future with reprints etc.

I hope that answers your question Mad Doc Morris.
 

[Furt]

I've always been interested in the possibility of a jousting game, ever since watching Knight's Tale, but could not really warrant putting forward the money on a gamble without seeing an example of how a typical joust worked.

What I'd really need to see is an example, with pics of a single joust in progress, to determine the complexity of the mechanics and the time it would take.

I think you have grabbed people's attention but need to leak a little more info.

Also is this something I could play with substituted figures, like Lego knights, that I could play with my son?

Itching for a little more please...

[Mad Doc Morris]

Two games and 30 skill cards and 15 Lord cards, in rule set 1.
In rule set 2 two different games with 30 skill cards, 30 Archer skill cards, 15 Archer cards.

This gives four different games plus an adventure type game works out at £8 a game. So the prices are just about right, otherwise its plainly just not worth doing it. If someone wants all three rules sets then yes we could probably do deal a on postage etc.  

We really don't think they are too dear, its a price I would pay, but with all the start up costs need evening out, to have the rules designed, to have them printed, the web site costs. the pay pal costs, the freed downloads we will do, etc etc.

Once we have recouped the start up costs, which are very high, we may well be able to drop the prices some in the future with reprints etc.

I hope that answers your question Mad Doc Morris.
 

To be perfectly honest, I'm more confused than before.
Does each booklet come with a ready-made set of cards then? Your first answer was they need to be cut out or photocopied from the book – that's a rather different approach. And second, I'm not sure if early customers should be asked to fund lower prices of eventual reprints. I'm fully aware of the financial risks of printing and selling a set of rules these days – it's no profitable business by any means. However, at least take a look at your business model (which now sounds a bit like crowdfunding) and your advertising policy in particular (which is playing on your potential customers' good will yet).

A series of articles(?) in Wargames Illustrated is fine, but I have no intend (or incentive) to pay for such advertisements. I think a decent online presence with blog articles containing actual texts and examples of play or an updated FB page would rather do the trick. (Also, as an aside, proofreading your ads would perhaps raise confidence.)

Sorry to be such a pain, but I don't want this to fall short of its potential. I am still seriously interested.

[black hat miniatures]

Nice to see the extra information - though it is slightly confusing.

I am going to be very critical here, because you are intending to release a commercial product, but you NEED to find someone to proofread and rewrite your text.

If I see a website that doesn't understand the use of apostrophes (as in Crossed Lance's) or commas (you have far too many) or basic punctuation (there is no space BEFORE a full stop in normal layout, just afterwards) or confuses Principals with Principles then I have no faith that the actual rulebook will be any better....

It sounds like an interesting approach to jousting, but for £20 a rulebook you NEED to produce a professional looking product.

Mike

[Ray Earle]

If I see a website that doesn't understand the use of apostrophes (as in Crossed Lance's) or commas (you have far too many) or basic punctuation (there is no space BEFORE a full stop in normal layout, just afterwards) or confuses Principals with Principles then I have no faith that the actual rulebook will be any better....

It sounds like an interesting approach to jousting, but for £20 a rulebook you NEED to produce a professional looking product.

I agree with Mike completely. If you are producing three rulebooks, at £20 a shot (£60 for all three) I would be looking at a professionally produced, laid out rulebook with additional cards sumptuously printed and a website to support all of this with pictures of games being played, illustrated examples of play etc. I'm not sure that the description of a joust played out with just one roll of the dice really sells me the rules. I have no idea how the cards work, what they have on them, how big they are, how important to the games result they are or anything?

What builds up the tension as the two knights close along the tilt?

Also, rulebooks aside. The figure prices seem a little askew. As its Curteys figures you are using, they sell three mounted knights for £9 and four foot knights for £4. A single mounted knight with transfers (listed as £4 ordered individually, and very nice they are too) is £10. It doesn't really make sense. Do the named knights come with their specific cards too in with the price?

It's an interesting project, and had you opened with sample pages from the book, fully supported website with illustrated samples of play I'd probably already be ordering. But at the moment as it stands I'll wait...

I hope you can sort out the issues and that the game sells well as a result. 

[Crossedlances]

Well it will teach us to try and rush the project out so people can enjoy a game.

Let me try and answer some of the questions.

1. As to the prices they are the same as Curteys and always will be in the crossed lances series.
2. The build-up comes with the more games you play, especially when you want to get your own back on someone.
3. The cards are in the game, free also when they get worn. If at a later date you buy a Lord specific set, then his shield will be on the back and his  skill will be different from the standard, these will be available very soon.
4. Yes some of the spelling is wrong, we know that now, what we didn't think would happen, is unchecked text being up loaded, it will be made right today.
5. We as you may guess have full time jobs so bear with us to make the changes.
6. Yes photos of the rules we have, but they are too heavy for upload onto the web so were having to have them reduced.
7. The word will get out as more people play the game, and we are pretty sure we will get good feedback.

We had to move fast, as the shows begin in February, even though the products have been late getting to us, due to the sheer volume of work at the suppliers end, good for them not good for us.

We have though this week done a deal with Sally 4th, who have produced laser cut wood products for the game, as we are in for the long haul we will get better.

I take Mad Dogs comments on board, good will yes it may be, but only because we managed to the traders to play at Derby and their only complaint was we didn't have them for sale at Derby.
We do really talk about your feedback, I gave the web designer this site to look at the comments and make changes as needed.


Martin

[Ray Earle]

Well it will teach us to try and rush the project out so people can enjoy a game.

I think nothing makes up for thorough play testing and marketing. If you look at some of the other games on these boards that are due for release such as 'Blood on the sands' and 'SSS' you'll see that these have been play tested around the world and each is accompanied by loads of stunning pictures enticing gamers to enter another period. It's not the approach everyone takes, but it works. The majority of the Osprey wargames series has topics running on the appropriate board months before its release promoting it and stirring up interest. Rushing things out doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence in anything.

1. As to the prices they are the same as Curteys and always will be in the crossed lances series.

You've missed my point. The 'official' figures for the game may well be the same price at Curteys but the point I was making was that I can buy 3 knights on barded horses from Curteys for £9, add the transfers from battleflag (at £4 each) for a total of £21. The equivalent 3 knights and transfers from yourself would cost me £30. Quite a difference. In fact enough for another three knights..

2. The build-up comes with the more games you play, especially when you want to get your own back on someone.

This is one of the things that needs a much wider explanation. Is each joust three bouts? That's only six dice rolls (three for each player), its going to be over quickly.

Examples of the cards would be nice.

We have though this week done a deal with Sally Forth, who have produced laser cut wood products for the game, as we are in for the long haul we will get better.

Excuse my ignorance but I've never heard of them. Any examples of what they make or maybe a link to a website?

We do really talk about your feedback, I gave the web designer this site to look at the comments and make changes as needed.

It is all feedback after all, and I hope you find it constructive and useful. We're only here to help.