Couple of varnish questions

[Argonor]

Why would you want to rinse a painted mini?

Sometimes I buy second hand minis. They often have a paintjob I don't like, or are simply too cluttered in primer/paint to look good. Thus, I want to remove the paint to be able to give them an approvable paintjob.

I usually use a material known as 'brown soap' hereabouts, but sometimes it just isn't enough to lift the primer, so I'm always looking for other solutions.

[maxxon]

This is a little off topic, but I got the impression from some of the above that white spirit will soften or dissolve acrylic paints.

Once acrylic paint dries, it is basically a (relatively soft) plastic coating. Any solvent that attacks plastic attacks acrylic paint too. And vice versa, though the miniatures plastic is generally much more resistant.

What you want is solvent that works on acrylic paint but not on the various other plastics used for miniatures these days.

That can be a balancing act and you may experience especially fine surface texture "softening"...

If there is a varnish layer protecting the paint, that may very well be impervious to any solvents that wouldn't negatively affect the model as well.

[Argonor]

Once acrylic paint dries, it is basically a (relatively soft) plastic coating. Any solvent that attacks plastic attacks acrylic paint too. And vice versa, though the miniatures plastic is generally much more resistant.

What you want is solvent that works on acrylic paint but not on the various other plastics used for miniatures these days.

That can be a balancing act and you may experience especially fine surface texture "softening"...

If there is a varnish layer protecting the paint, that may very well be impervious to any solvents that wouldn't negatively affect the model as well.

Yeah. I know. The advent of plastic miniatures made life a lot cheaper - and more difficult!

[maxxon]

Yeah. I know. The advent of plastic miniatures made life a lot cheaper - and more difficult!

Some people even stipulated that moving all production to plastics was GW's evil plan to stop second hand trade -- I personally wouldn't go quite that far in conspiracy theory.

Personally I prefer metals for almost everything.

[Mitch K]

Ah, that makes total sense! Surgical spirit/methylated spirit will usually strip acrylic without affect styrene. Dilute caustic soda is another option. My experience is that neither of these affects the castings, but might affect any glue joints, depending on what was used to assemble the figures.

There used to be a product called "modelstrip" that was sold for removing paint from model aircraft (which usually have a finer level of surface detail than we are used to). It was a caustic product and so in the UK the Royal Mail wouldn't carry it, but this or something like it might be worth a look.

Just avoid xylene, like someone I know did with some Tamiya 1/35 scale figures...

[Connectamabob]

In my experience white spirits/mineral spirits will lightly erode polystyrene (what most injection molded plastic models/figures are made of) if you scrub with rag. A bit like wearing something down with polishing compound. Toothbrush scrubbing is probably safe, I'd guess, but I've never tried.

That said, I wouldn't use white spirit to soak for stripping. It's overkill, and it can effect the plastic. Contrary to what Maxxon said, the acrylic polymer in acrylic paint is not nearly as solid/inert as molded plastic, and there are a number of common cleaning solvents that will strip it without touching the model itself. Brands vary according to location: here in the US a product called "Simple Green" is often recommended, In the British isles there's a product called "Dettol". Here's a recent thread on stripping: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=63213.0

However, if you live in a country/area with different brands or fewer options, I recommend 90% isopropyl (rubbing/disinfectant alcohol). Soak for a day or two, and most anything that isn't solvent-fused to the plastic (like a lacquer primer, or those "plasti-coat" spray paints) will peel off like wet paper when you scrub. Not always safe to use on resin, but for metal or polystyrene it is completely safe.

[Blackwolf]

Fram this may be of interest;


     http://arcanepaintworks.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/varnish-lacquer-dullcote-and-chips-oh-my.html


  I do the non-varnish thing all the time now,works for me

[maxxon]

Not always safe to use on resin, but for metal or polystyrene it is completely safe.

That was kinda my point. Plastic figures come in a huge variaty of materials these days in addition to the traditional polystryrene and polyethylene.

But that said: I've used pine soap solution for stripping (it's really a byproduct of the forestry industry so I've no clue if the pure stuff is available elsewhere). It works pretty well, but it doesn't really dissolve the paint -- it seems to attack the bonds between materials and the paint will peel off instead of melting off like with a hard solvent.

The downside is that it will also attack glue joints so you may end up with component parts instead of a model. It's also not very effective on solvent-based primers.

Here's something to consider: If the problem with the figure is overeager application of spray primer and/or varnish, it may well be in unrecoverable condition.

[FramFramson]

Fram this may be of interest;


     http://arcanepaintworks.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/varnish-lacquer-dullcote-and-chips-oh-my.html


  I do the non-varnish thing all the time now,works for me

That's bully for him, but in Pulp Alley you lay figures down all the time. Using unprotected figures on a board with any kind of abrasive terrain really seems foolish. I mean, I can scratch off paint with my fingernail pretty damned easily if I want - it's still just an incredibly thin plastic shell.  

It also seems like he's got some dullcote in there. So... he is still adding a protective layer. It's just a light one and he's half-pretending he's not actually adding it. :/

[Blackwolf]

Whoa,only a suggestion mate Thought you might be interested.

[FramFramson]

Sorry, didn't mean to bite the hand! That came off a little harsher than intended.

I'm just skeptical of that fellow's suggestion that his advice is a universal replacement for varnish. I don't think it's at all suitable for people who expect their minis to get heavy handling (or even tumbling) or who expect others to use their minis, and that's a lot of situations.

I'd agree that acrylic paint is tougher than some folks assume, but that's still ultimately not all that tough.

[maxxon]

I'd agree that acrylic paint is tougher than some folks assume, but that's still ultimately not all that tough.

Primer and surface prep has a lot to do with it.

When I first got acrylics in the 80's, I painted them straight on like I had done with enamels previously and didn't bother with varnish.

It peeled right off at the slightest touch, especially from the then new plastic shields, which I probably had not even washed...

[FramFramson]

Well, the thing is that there's a difference between soft abrasion (picking up or handling figures with your hands) and hard abrasion (knocks, scrapes on sharp or hard objects, etc.). YOu can prep for adherence such that acrylic holds really well, much better than normal, but you can still scrape it off with a nail head.

[Connectamabob]

But that said: I've used pine soap solution for stripping (it's really a byproduct of the forestry industry so I've no clue if the pure stuff is available elsewhere). It works pretty well, but it doesn't really dissolve the paint -- it seems to attack the bonds between materials and the paint will peel off instead of melting off like with a hard solvent.

That's the way isopropyl works too. It doesn't usually dissolve the paint so much as dissolve the bond, so the paint sloughs off in bits like wet paper.  I haven't had Isopropyl attack glues, but then I'm kinda hard-core about my choices in glues.

Here's something to consider: If the problem with the figure is overeager application of spray primer and/or varnish, it may well be in unrecoverable condition.

Yeah, solvent primer on a plastic mini will never come off. You can usually get much of the paint down to the first color coat off the primer though.

Never had a problem with varnishes, regardless of thickness or type. Just need the right solvent/cleaner. My big gun has been a product called "Super Clean", which will destroy anything short of primer solvent bonded directly to the plastic (probably destroys the primer's integral bonds thoroughly though).

[maxxon]

I haven't had Isopropyl attack glues, but then I'm kinda hard-core about my choices in glues.

I only strip figures I bought second hand, so it's hard to tell which glue was used in the assembly.

And quite frankly I haven't done much of that lately. I'll rather spend a little more money and save my hobby time for something I like doing...