Potential Ancients Convert - Advice Needed

[Melnibonean]

Greetings Folks,
I'm being more and more lured in the direction of ancients but I don't know where to start.

Rules: I have no idea although I know I don't like DBA (played it a few times in the past). I've thought of Hail Caesar but I really have no idea.
Scale: I'm open to either 15mm or 28mm.
Starting army: Well I like Classical Greeks (my wife is Greek but I just like the look of Hoplites). I also like Republican Rome as I have a fair bit of knowledge of Roman history.

So what advice and wisdom can you offer a would be ancients beginner?
Where do I start.

P.S. Auto-correct wants me to change hoplites to shoplifters

[Polkovnik]

I'm sure soon you'll get lots of posts by gamers recommending their rules of choice. However, before a recommendation can be meaningful for you you really need to give a bit of consideration as to what type of game you want. Otherwise all you're going to get is a list of peoples favourite games.
The main decisions you need to make are :
Skirmish or big battle.
Individual basing or unit / element basing (although you can combine both using sabot bases or movement trays).
Rules covering a wide period (allowing you to learn one set of generic rules to cover all of your ancient / medieval gaming) or period specific rules.
Then there are further considerations as to the type of game you prefer, for example IGOUGO where you can move everything on your turn, or a game with a more interactive turn sequence and command and control restrictions (representing battlefield friction).
If you can narrow your requirements down you can receive more meaningful and useful suggestions. Then you can get a shortlist of rules that might interest you, then take a look at some reviews and battle reports.

If you want a unit based game with command and control restrictions and an interactive turn sequence then you may want to take a look at my Sword & Spear rules. You can see a summary of reviews of these rules on my website:
http://polkovnik.moonfruit.com/sword-spear-reviews/
There are lots of battle reports on my forum, so you can get an idea of what it looks like and how it plays:
http://polkovnikproductions.freeforums.org/battle-reports-f9.html

[Melnibonean]

Skirmish or big battle.

Individual basing or unit / element basing (although you can combine both using sabot bases or movement trays).

Ah... Big Battles.
Preferably element basing. I'd prefer no individual casualty removal although it isn't essential.
I play Napoleonics, Pike & Shotte & ACW so basing units/regiments/battalions is something I'm use to.

[Froggy the Great]

Having done a lot of ancients in 28mm. I recommend 15mm.

[Hu Rhu]

I would recommend Hail Ceasar but it does favour large battles.  As to scale; cost is a factor and the increasing array of plastic in 28mm has a lot going for it.  Victrix do a nice set of Republican Romans and Hoplites so you are spoilt for choice.  Given they match very nicely with the Agema Romans and the Warlord figures you could do worse.  And plastic ancients are increasing in ranges with Macedonians and Celts available now and Carthaginians, Spanish and Numidians promised for in 2015.

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best and good gaming.

[LawnRanger]

If its big battles the i would think of looking at 15mm or even 10mm ..

They are a fraction of the cost of 28mm stuff they are a lot quicker to paint up and when you have 15mm stuff in units of say 24 +figs they look the part and when you get 8-12 units on the table it looks and feels like a battle .. and if you game at home then the size of your table is to be taken into account ..

Fields of Glory is a nice set of rules .. and works well in 15mm/10mm and even 28mm .
As for armies thats a hard one  just go with what you have always liked your armies can always grow i now find that i have over 22 armies 7 of them ancients 

Happy gaming and good luck with the project ..   

[Steve63]

If you like DBA go with Big Battle DBA, played with 3 DBA armies.
Play it in 15mm, Museum miniatures have a sale on in January.
Hoplites and Republican Romans are both a bit limited tactically, both being mostly heavy infantry, line 'em up and walk forward or line 'em up and stand still, while trying to protect your exposed flanks.  Try Seleucids, still in the classical period but they can use just about every troop type.
I have tried lots of different ancient rules and I've settled on DBMM, not to every ones taste but they are a very good set of rules, if you use "historical tactics" you get a plausible result.  There is a rumour that there's a hardback DBMM book coming out soon containing the rules and the lists.

[julesav]

I think that Forged in Battle have a new ancients set in development to go with their 15mm Classical era ancients kickstarter. Might be worth waiting to give it a look, the miniatures look great!

[commissarmoody]

I am a gluten for punishment and am going the victrix 28 mm and thinking of going old glory 15mm.

[Old Guy]

War and Conquest, I am a convert and I like big battles, there is figure removal though, but it is not a big deal, Scarab also do Greek army plastic boxes I think, check them out.

[SteveBurt]

If you want element based with big battles I'd recommend DBA, DBMM, Field of Glory, Armati or Sword & Spear.
All excellent rules. I play all of those with 28mm figures multi-based on 60mm wide bases.
DBA is obviously easiest from the point of view of painting stuff up; the other all need more figures, although actually you can play Sword & Spear (or indeed Armati) with a single base per unit as there is neither formation change nor base removal in those rules.

[WuZhuiQiu]

Unless I am missing something, wouldn't Impetus also be a suitable option?

[Furt]

I am a huge fan of the Command & Colors board game that in my opinion simulates ancient warfare very well.

It has been used very successfully by wargamers with miniatures replacing the wooden block pieces.

[xpalpatinex]

You said you don't like DBA...makes sense. Its a weird game with lawyer written rules (although I sometimes enjoy it).

I would say either Impetus or Hail Caesar looking at your requests...

-Big Battles
-Element/Unit basing
-No single figure removal
-NOT DBA

I'm a huge fan of hoplites and ancient Greece and started my historical wargaming there...I would say however not to do the same. It is a limited period, and even with a great love of hoplites I've found myself only rarely playing the games.

Do Republican Rome - Interesting armies, tons of allies, a good enemy in Carthage, and you can also fight Gauls, Spanish, Macedonian, Numidians etc...

Also - 28mm is my preference but this is entirely up to you. I just love the look of massed armies in that scale and the figures are gorgeous and plentiful. Every 15mm project I start for budget or space has me lusting after the 28mm version of it before I've finished and wishing I had just done it that way.

[Melnibonean]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I've jumped the gun and I have a box of 28mm Victrix Hoplites on the way because I want to do this in order to have big battles with lots of pretty looking troops. It's a long range project and I enjoy painting so I don't mind the brush time involved (I also paint pretty fast).

But I'm still not sure what rules to go for.  Hail Caesar - Impetus - Clash of Empires all seem popular. What is the difference between them?
Classical Hack seems to get a bit of a mention.

I'm a huge fan of hoplites and ancient Greece and started my historical wargaming there...I would say however not to do the same. It is a limited period, and even with a great love of hoplites I've found myself only rarely playing the games.

Do Republican Rome - Interesting armies, tons of allies, a good enemy in Carthage, and you can also fight Gauls, Spanish, Macedonian, Numidians etc...

Rome later (and Celts). I just want to do Greeks first.