Sculpting product question concerning lady parts.

[The Red Graf]

Guys, I have a bit of a strange question. I need to do some sculpting for the first time and I need advice on what to use. I read here that different products (greenstuff, brownstuff, procreate, etc.) all have their uses for different projects. I have a bunch of loose Witch Elf legs and I want to use them with some alternate female torsos and heads to make some cavalry. I need to sculpt the ladies bottoms. So, I need something that will stay workable for a long time while I get the right shape. Suggestions?

[snitcythedog]

So, I need something that will stay workable for a long time while I get the right shape. Suggestions?

For working time you can use green stuff.  Just mix less hardener in than you normally would.  If you have never used it there is a bit of a learning curve so I would look online for some tutorials.  Green stuff can "remember" the shape it was just put in and spring back a little bit.  Like most putties it can also stick to most things so be sure to use wither water or even Vaseline. 
Snitchy sends 

[The Red Graf]

Thanks Snitchy, which part is the hardener, the yellow or the blue?

[Vermis]

The hardener is the blue part. Ditto on mixing in less blue/more yellow. It's what the manufacturer recommends too.

Procreate is pretty good for beginners too, though I'd say it's about on par with GS with extra yellow. A couple of advantages that it claims, include the light grey colour (sometimes easier for seeing details, nicks, fingerprints etc. than saturated mid-green) and a much-reduced 'memory' compared to GS, making it less springy and easier to push, smooth, and model fine, sharp details. I'd agree with these, although I find that added yellow in green stuff helps reduce memory anyway.

You might have trouble finding much brown stuff, since it was effectively discontinued.

Then there's all the putties that work like clay and cure rock-hard. Will those just confuse the issue? Anyway, while I know some folk swear by them, I personally think the more 'chewing gum' stuff like GS and procreate are more forgiving to beginner mini sculptors.

What kind of sculpting or modelling tools do you have at hand? And how will the legs be fixed to the torsos before you start filling in?

[Connectamabob]

"Fixit" putty from Aves is designed to have long working time. I haven't tried it myself yet, though I've had good experiences with their regular stuff, so it's high on my "to try" list.

GS will make shaping a simple nice bum very, very easy though, due to it's working characteristics, and that will eliminate a lot of the need for extra time. I'm not a GS fan for general sculpting, but soft organic shapes are undeniably something GS excels at relative to other putties.

*EDIT* I think Vermis is half-right about GS being forgiving for beginners. The "chewing gum" aspect makes sculpting soft organic forms almost ridiculously easy, but on the flipside it'll fight you like a badger when it comes to crisp edges/shapes and blended/feathered edges.

For what you're doing specifically, especially if you're inexperienced, GS will make the job quicker and easier than other putties, but if you're looking to do clothes, armor, weapons, etc. in addition to that, you'll be better off with one of the more clay-like types.

Clay-like types do everything equally. GS gives beginners a lot of "help" sculpting certain types of forms right out of the gate, but it takes only a little skill progression to make the clay like types do the same just as efficiently. On the flipside, it takes a lot more skill progression to wrangle crisp forms and feathered blends out of GS. This means that while GS is very encouraging at the very beginning (as long as you're sculpting rounded forms/details) and you can eventually learn to do everything with GS with enough work, clay like types will allow you to do a wider range of things earlier, and will allow your skills to "take off" much faster once you get your legs.

The working techniques don't entirely transfer well between GS and clay-like putties, so unfortunately GS doesn't really make good "training wheels" for clay-like putties. It's super-easy for people to get entrenched in a preference for GS that's actually based on sunk cost or "the devil you know", which drags down the quality of their work as they learn. I've seen a lot of people get trapped like this, both IRL and on these forums.

[bandit86]

Greenstuff is great also Pro create is too.  And of course if your going to sculpt lady parts... research,research research 

[Daeothar]

I find ProCreate to be much easier to work with than Green Stuff. Mostly because of the already mentioned lesser memory of the material. Also, I can confirm that it can be very easily filed and sanded when dry, something you won't find easy to do with GS, especially when using a yellow biased mix.

PC has white and a black (dark grey) components, and they work the same way as the yellow and blue parts of GS; the white functions like the yellow and the black as the blue.

You need to be aware that there are two ways of sculpting though; wet and dry. Wet sculpting is using wet clay or putty to push and prod the material till it has the desired shape.

Advantages are that you can slowly build up your sculpt and see where you are going and the fact that you can remove a current part before it dries, when you see it's just not going to work.
Disadvantages are the short working time, and the fact that you need to practice a lot to get nice, smooth surfaces. Also, getting good sharp edges is very difficult to achieve at first.

On the other hand, there's dry sculpting, which basically means chipping away at the material to get down to the shape you want. Think sculptors like Rodin, who remarked when looking at a block of marble: 'the sculpture is already in there, I just need to remove the excess material' (or something along those lines anyway ).

Advantages are that you can take your time to observe and decide how to proceed, and you will be able to get a smooth surface relatively easy. Disadvantages are that near the end, you can not afford any mistakes, as they will be impossible to reverse, and you need a really good mind's eye for the shape when starting a project.

As it is, I happen to use both techniques together; I actually use more hardener in the putty (mostly PC), so I can then file/sand/cut it down when I 'oversculpt' a certain part. However, this is only for the general shape; the details are all wet sculpted on.

Also, I find that a very tiny amount of baby oil (or equivalent) is perfect for lubricating your tools. It's more forgiving than vaseline and lasts longer than water or saliva (and also just works better at keeping the putty from sticking to the tools). I put a couple of drops in an old bottle cap, and every now and then dip the tip of the tool in there. Then I wipe the excess off with a bit of paper towel (you just want a slight coat or sheen). A bottle cap like that might last me for weeks!

Just make sure to check your sculpt before adding a new layer for any oil remaining on the surface, as the oil might make it hard for the new layer to adhere to the surface underneath (but when this happens, you probably used too much oil to begin with ).

And invest in one or two good sculpting tools. I did years ago and couldn't be happier with the one I got. I basically do all my sculpting with it and have never looked back at my old GW sculpting tool, which can't hold a candle to the Tiranti tool I bought. My sculpting really improved just by using the right equipment. If I recall correctly, it's the Tiranti Dentist sculpting tool nr 14. Not cheap, but worth every cent...

Oh; and good luck on sculpting your obviously enjoyable subject matter...

[Vermis]

I think Vermis is half-right

Thanks. I think.

I do agree with you about claylike putties. I couldn't have a putty box without a bit of magic sculp or milliput etc. in it. But I think the benefit of elastic putties to the beginner isn't so much the spring, but the stretch. While claylike putties tend to be more versatile, I think the more 'crumbly' texture and water-solubility (if using water) has more of a learning curve to it, especially for teeny little details on 28mm conversions - unless you let it sit for around an hour to firm up. I like milliput now (love it, even) but halfway through the first packet I ever bought, I threw it out and swore off it for a couple of years because it annoyed me so much. I don't think I'd go as far in my GS love as Tom Meier, but I do agree with his assertion that, in comparison, you can work GS pretty fine without fraying or tearing.
Even these days I prefer to bind claylike putties a little tighter with a spot of elastic putty. Or loosen the latter with some of the former. I find that, depending on your proportions, it gives you the best of both worlds.

Though I still think that the relatively new recommendation of half as much yellow again (as opposed to just a crumb or two more yellow) improves GS a fair bit. I still prefer more or less claylike putty in the process, but I've found that extra yellow as standard does make GS noticeably more pliable and responsive. Details maybe not as razor-sharp as claylike putty, but not so very far off. I think procreate improves on that again, just a bit.

And invest in one or two good sculpting tools. I did years ago and couldn't be happier with the one I got. I basically do all my sculpting with it and have never looked back at my old GW sculpting tool, which can't hold a candle to the Tiranti tool I bought. My sculpting really improved just by using the right equipment. If I recall correctly, it's the Tiranti Dentist sculpting tool nr 14. Not cheap, but worth every cent...

I started with a GW tool myself. Then I got a set of wax carvers that, despite being cheap bog-standard tools, made me wonder how on earth anyone could get anything done with the GW tool.
I actually use the GW tool as my main sculpting tool again, these days, but only after grinding and polishing it right down into slightly different shapes, smooth surfaces, and fine edges. But I've also got a few dental-quality carvers off ebay for surprisingly low prices; and now, comparing those, they make me wonder how on earth I could get anything done with the first set of wax carvers...

[The Red Graf]

What kind of sculpting or modelling tools do you have at hand? And how will the legs be fixed to the torsos before you start filling in?

I have these tools I got from Micro-Mark. I don't think there is a way to attach the legs to the body before I sculpt the center section so I thought I would do it in two parts.

[Daeothar]

Those look like they're made for larger subjects than our trusty 28mm friends.

From the look of them, I'd say that I would be using only the top and the bottom ones, as the rest have edges that are too hard. Of course everyone swears by their own favourites, as those are the ones they're used to.

This, however, is the tool I was mentioning: supertool.

I use that, and a small tool I botched together myself from a broken compass leg and a meedle, for the very fine work. Other than those, just about nothing, bar the tip of my hobby knife every now and then...

And it is usually the easiest and strongest solution to pin the parts you're joining together first, and then add the sculpting on top of the wires. So I'd strongly suggest that you do that first, as you might easily misjudge the parts and end up with some nice sculpting, that won't fit the parts...

do you have pictures of the parts you need to join together?

[The Red Graf]

These three plastic pieces.

[Vermis]

This, however, is the tool I was mentioning: supertool.

That's the good 'un. The general shape usually hailed as the 'wax carver #5'. I had trouble finding any products for sale under that title, until I found out what I needed to search for was a 'zahle' carver. (the names lecron, hylin and vehe might be worth looking up too )

So I'd agree that the top tool, with with the zahle-style head, looks promising. Aside from a couple of common-or-garden needles or knife blades, I think the next useful thing would be some kind of 'miniature finger' tool. That'd usually be the little spatula on the other end of a normal zahle or Tiranti SG. I dunno if you'd need to get one, though. A thick, blunt darning needle or toothpick - or even just the side of the blade - could do alright.

The plastic pieces look fairly complete from this angle. Though again, I agree that it might be a good idea to pin them together for a stable sculpting base, if there isn't enough surface area to cement them well.

[DS615]

I've only ever used greenstuff, and never for anything elaborate.
I don't know what sort of cavalry you're making, but consider that a large enough, or cushioned enough, saddle can hide a lot of what you're looking to do. And it's much easier to sculpt.
Assuming your cavalry has saddles, of course.

[The Red Graf]

I've only ever used greenstuff, and never for anything elaborate.
I don't know what sort of cavalry you're making, but consider that a large enough, or cushioned enough, saddle can hide a lot of what you're looking to do. And it's much easier to sculpt.
Assuming your cavalry has saddles, of course.

I have some of the big space wolf wolves, I was going to use five of them as WFB Empire monstrous cavalry. The Daughters of Ulric.

[snitcythedog]

You might have trouble finding much brown stuff, since it was effectively discontinued.

If you are interested it is still available.  You just have to look on the internets.
http://www.polymericsystems.com/epoxies-adhesives/epoxy-putty-tapes/kneadatite-brown-neutral.htm
Snitchy sends.