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Author Topic: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April  (Read 21591 times)

Offline Argonor

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2015, 11:10:39 AM »
I do agree that there seems to be some issues, but let's have a look at some pics of the final product (with proper lighting) before dismissing them completely.

I did have higher hopes for these after recieving the 3  Dark Age sets, which I like a lot, though.  :?
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Offline Whitwort Stormbringer

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2015, 07:57:33 PM »
Can't say I'm terribly impressed with the two photos we have, but they're kinda poorly lit and it's only two models, of many possible combinations, I'd imagine, so I suppose we'll just have to wait and see more.

I'm more interested in the mention of the heavy cavalry, shame we don't get to see them, yet.

Offline Atheling

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2015, 05:03:32 AM »
To be fair on the pics of the mini's, the photography does seem to have been taken in a little bit of a hurry with shadows where one wouldn't normally see them. I'd give it a little time before passing judgement and see what they actually look like at Salute or shortly after.

Camera's and angles can do funny things which is why I, like most of you, like to have at least sen the mini in the flesh before buying.

Darrell.


Offline Nord

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2015, 04:17:01 PM »
Never been that impressed by GB stuff, metal or plastic. This doesn't do anything to change my view.

Online Harry Faversham

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2015, 06:06:02 PM »
:o Hold your fire chaps, until we've seen a unit painted and based.  :o
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Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2015, 06:41:32 PM »
:o Hold your fire chaps, until we've seen a unit painted and based :o

Well, the post quoted from Gripping Beast said...

Quote
Caveats over...what you think?

...inviting people to say what they think of the figures in the raw...

You're right, of course. A really good painter would be able to make these look a lot better than they look here. But that wouldn't really address the sculpting / fit problems apparent in these photos...

LAF is a polite, constructive forum. We're all very respectful of other people's offerings - including things people are trying to sell us. Every now and then though, something comes along where a bit of frank criticism seems the honest thing to do. As long as it's specific (and not personal or petty) that's okay, surely? Especially when the seller has asked 'what do you think?'
Perhaps GB will pick up on the reaction, and take the opportunity to address some of the issues people have cited before going into full scale production.
That would be a good thing, no?  :)

Offline Argonor

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2015, 10:47:00 PM »

That would be a good thing, no?  :)


Absolutely!

Online Harry Faversham

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2015, 11:20:07 PM »
Well, the post quoted from Gripping Beast said...

...inviting people to say what they think of the figures in the raw...

You're right, of course. A really good painter would be able to make these look a lot better than they look here. But that wouldn't really address the sculpting / fit problems apparent in these photos...

LAF is a polite, constructive forum. We're all very respectful of other people's offerings - including things people are trying to sell us. Every now and then though, something comes along where a bit of frank criticism seems the honest thing to do. As long as it's specific (and not personal or petty) that's okay, surely? Especially when the seller has asked 'what do you think?'
Perhaps GB will pick up on the reaction, and take the opportunity to address some of the issues people have cited before going into full scale production.
That would be a good thing, no?  :)


Spot on Cap'n. Only dog I got in this fight is if I can bung 'em  in with Perry Fuzzy Wuzzies as cheap an' cheerful mounted in the Sudan!

:P

« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 10:44:45 AM by Captain Blood »

Offline TWD

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2015, 09:09:36 AM »
There's a feeling that you have do give these new plastic producers some leeway 'cos they're a bit inexperienced, and maybe GBP's last couple of kits were a sign of improvement (I dunno, didn't look too closely at them) but I think they're starting to slide backwards again.

But aren't these sculpted by Bob Naismisth, who's been doing it for over 30 years (starting with GW Drastic Plastic) and tooled by Renedra (who likewise have over 30 years experience)?

For one thing, I personally wish they'd try to do multipart limited-pose minis with anatomy that kinda makes sense, rather than multipose minis with strange one-armed-bandit robo-limbs. It looks like they're using moulding/casting decisions that even GW gave up on a few years ago.

This I think is the nub of the issue. The GBP Arab foot IMO are compromised by the need to make them multi-part and multi-function (Spears AND Javelins AND bows). The result is the poses are right for only one of those roles and the other variants are compromised.  What I suspect happens is that the sculptor makes a reasonable spearman, and then sculpts a bow arm that sort of works. Rather than sculpting a nice spearman and a nice bowman.
The end result is that there is actually only one really good way to put the model together, and the multi-pose element is actually something of an illusion. To get really nice looking models we have to do some of the sculpting work to compensate for the compromises and, as a pretty poor sculptor, the models I have end up looking gawky and unrealistic.
Personally I'd rather have a sprue of three really nice single part spearmen (or, single pose with a plug in spear), and two really nice single pose bowmen.
I've recently painted up both the Perry single pose bowmen from WFB 5th edition and the single pose (but two part) spearmen and handgunners from WFB 6th edition. Even though those models are more than fifteen years old and sculpting and plastic technology has moved on considerably since then I'd far rather spend the rest of my days painting those models than spend more time and effort to get much poorer results on the majority of multi-part plastic historical sets that have come out over the last few years.

Offline Gibby

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2015, 10:00:49 AM »
Spot on Cap'n. Only dog I got in this fight is if I can bung 'em  in with Perry Fuzzy Wuzzies as cheap an' cheerful mounted ***s in the Sudan!

:P



Erm, not sure that is an acceptable word there, regardless of how Victorian Gentlemen themed your posts are.  :?

On topic, can't say I think much to these so far myself.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 10:45:12 AM by Captain Blood »

Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2015, 10:10:55 AM »
Very wise words, TWD. Wholeheartedly seconded. :)

I do get the advantages of low-cost, lightweight plastic models. I don't get, though, why multi-pose should be embraced. At least from a customer's viewpoint. I  take it that moulds are very expensive to produce, so a manufacturer might want to get as many options covered by as few sprues/sets as possible. But I'm not buying the idea that said versatility is meant as an 'empowerment' of customers to build their models in any way they want. To be honest, I prefer a single-posed model anytime above a dodgy, robotic looking multi-pose hybrid. Sadly, those latest Gripping Beast plastics are a let-down so far. A shame really, since decent Arab models would be useful in a number of settings – that's real versatility.

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2015, 10:43:53 AM »
But I'm not buying the idea that said versatility is meant as an 'empowerment' of customers to build their models in any way they want.

And yet the Perrys have shown it can be done - and it does indeed provide a lot of pleasure (for me anyway :))
The problem unfortunately, is that most of the other plastic manufacturers just aren't as good at designing in this versatility.

Erm, not sure that is an acceptable word there, regardless of how Victorian Gentlemen themed your posts are.  :?

True. That's generally regarded as a pretty offensive term these days. Appreciate you're using it in the context of historic parlance, but let's not give anyone cause to take offence?
Edited.

Offline Vermis

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2015, 10:59:53 AM »
TWD - agreed completely about multipose minis (but then I would ;) ) although I'm going to commit a horrible blasphemy: I don't think Bob Naismith's sculpting and design is all that and a bag of chips. I don't think a well-known name and 30 years experience makes that horse look much better!

Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2015, 11:23:01 AM »
And yet the Perrys have shown it can be done - and it does indeed provide a lot of pleasure (for me anyway :)).
Not to take away from your fabulous conversion work or that of dear Stuart lately or anyone else I've missed – but having built quite a few of those Perry models (Late Medieval, ACW, WW2) I'm still not sold on the concept. There are certain poses that work best, most others make the model look like a string puppet with pieces of equipment tacked on. At least if you don't spend time on 'fixing' with GS – which, for some of us, is a rather tedious task.
Maybe there are certain 'styles' which suit multi-pose models, like men in plate or segmented armour. And perhaps that's also why GW, arguably the most experienced player in the plastic mini market, have adopted that somewhat "square-cut" style for their models?

Anyway, I do agree that there are better and worse examples of plastic kits. One can hope for improvement. :)

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Gripping beast to do plastic Arab cavalry released in April
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2015, 11:58:49 AM »
I'm going to commit a horrible blasphemy: I don't think Bob Naismith's sculpting and design is all that and a bag of chips. I don't think a well-known name and 30 years experience makes that horse look much better!

I think you may have hit upon the central problem  ::)

 

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