Info wanted: 'Post-war' French

[Mr.Marx]

Hey All,

Recently a few people at my club have been talking about doing 10mm WW2/Early Cold War, and I'm rather keen to do a post war French armoured company.

I've wanted to do it for ages - the mix of Greyhounds, M3s, Shermans, Panthers and ARLs is just irresistible to me.

So, I thought I'd tap into the LAF's inexhaustible databanks; does anyone have any book recommendations, links to websites or photographs that would help me to inform this project?

Thanks,

MM.

[julesav]

I think that your best bet would be to search for references on the French army in Indochina. Most of that war was fought using predominantly WW2 kit - the 2 big exceptions are the introduction of 'lizard' pattern camouflage uniforms for French para units plus the use of MAT49 SMGs.

[Etranger]

Here you go for starters:

French MOD Historical site with a huge number of archival photographs, videos and photoessays http://www.ecpad.fr/ In French but easy enough to get around. It covers French military history for the past 100 odd years.

French tank site http://www.chars-francais.net/2015/ It's just been reorganised but it's easy enough to get around. In French. A lot of photographs including some of the more obscure kit.

A semi-official US PDF summarising the French Indochina War http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_memoranda/RM5271.html

A wargames site covering  the FICW http://indochine54.free.fr/

Probably worth checking out the Society of Twentieth Century Wargamers site too http://sotcw.co.uk/

[carlos marighela]

I'll have a look at the bookmarks on my computer at work but there's a n excellent site ( in French)  which list TO%Es for the French between the early 1950s and 1970s. It has a lot of the stuff you need apart from organisational charts such as which equipment was in use and when. 

[Mr.Marx]

Here you go for starters:

French MOD Historical site with a huge number of archival photographs, videos and photoessays http://www.ecpad.fr/ In French but easy enough to get around. It covers French military history for the past 100 odd years.

French tank site http://www.chars-francais.net/2015/ It's just been reorganised but it's easy enough to get around. In French. A lot of photographs including some of the more obscure kit.

A semi-official US PDF summarising the French Indochina War http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_memoranda/RM5271.html

A wargames site covering  the FICW http://indochine54.free.fr/

Probably worth checking out the Society of Twentieth Century Wargamers site too http://sotcw.co.uk/

Thanks for the links. There is some really useful (and interesting) stuff in there.

I'll have a look at the bookmarks on my computer at work but there's a n excellent site ( in French)  which list TO%Es for the French between the early 1950s and 1970s. It has a lot of the stuff you need apart from organisational charts such as which equipment was in use and when. 

If you could find them out I'd be most grateful. I know I'm going to end up doing Panthers and ARL44s - but having historical reference would make me feel a far better about it.

MM.

[Arlequín]

The Panthers and ARL-44s served with the 503^e régiment de chars de combat up to around 1952, when the M-47 replaced both types. The ARLs replaced some 17 of the Panthers that were being retired through lack of parts. So a search for that unit, or 503 RCC should bring up some useful pictures and articles in French... at least I hope it should.

It should be a novel force through; Panthers and ARLs, mixed with 'US-style' supporting infantry in the usual range of M3 Halftracks and Greyhounds et al.

 

[carlos marighela]

Here's the website I mentioned. http://daniel.rabbe.free.fr/

The organisational parts are here: http://daniel.rabbe.free.fr/organisation/organisation.htm

If you click through the hyper links you'll get the organisations.

Either my memory has failed me or parts of the site have been removed but it really covers 1957 onwards. The infantry went through quite a lot of change during the period as a result of fighting counter insurgency wars in Indochina and then Algeria but  the mechanised inf and armour changed a lot less. You can extrapolate from the lists but as a rough guide in the late 1940s French armoured units were heavily based if not quite carbon copies of the contemporary US organisation.

[Mako]

I didn't see the Panthers listed, but recently saw a TO&E listing the M47 tanks (1958), along with AMX-13s, and later, AMX-30s.

Companies of ten vehicles, e.g. 1 x Co. HQ, and 3 x 3 vehicle platoons.

Apparently, later, some companies had 13 vehicles, with 3 x 4 vehicle platoons.  Not sure if/when all converted to that, but saw that mentioned for both the AMX-30, and AMX-30b models.

[Mr.Marx]

Thanks for the links. I'll start digging into them.

MM.

[Mr.Marx]

Okay - with all that, I've got more than enough to put together a list for 'cold War Commander'.

The only thing I'm coming up short on is the colour of French armour, post war.

I can't find any colour photographs to go off.

The Panthers in French museums are in a kaki colour very simular to that used by their original operators.

Presumably, all American kit would be in US standard Olive Drab.

and I've no ideas as to the colour of the ARLs.

I've seen French armour in a lovely looking blue-green, but I've no idea as to its providence.

Anyone got any info?

MM.

[Etranger]

The ARLs look to be in a dark monochrome, probably green. I use Olive Drab for the US kit in Indochina. For "native" French kit I use a mid green colour, based on colour photos of unrestored museum specimens. I'll find some examples when I'm on a proper computer.

[Etranger]

Here we are: Museum specimens, so possibly not the original colour but likely to be representative. Originals all sourced from internet.









For a bit of fun!