Alien aliens

[Hoser]

Interesting post from Weasel on TMP:
So there's a bit of a disconnect I think.
Whenever we talk about what aliens we'd like to see in games, people always bring up that they want strange, truly alien critters that haven't been done before.
WHen you go buy miniatures, it's basically humanoids with guns.
So how do we reconcile those two?
In essence the question is:
Do you buy models for a game or do you buy a game for your models?
If someone puts out a game with super-weird aliens, and the game is cool otherwise, would you try to source or convert figures for it or would you pass, because the rules don't use the types already in your collection?
One of my pet peeves is the lack of non-humanoid aliens available in 28mm; the big exception would obviously be Tyranids and their clones. I really wish someone would give some thought to releasing a series figs of a truly alien race. One example I have in mind is in a book called The Trilisk Ruins by Michael McCloskey. The Gorgala are similar to giant centipedes, with 20 pairs of legs, the front four being used for communication and tool manipulation. The Gorgala are deaf, but have mass-sense. They carry tools and weapons on a large backpack.  A sensory cluster hangs from the front of the body. That's enough of a description to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

[CptJake]

Plenty of HP Lovecraft story inspired figs that are pretty darned alien out there.   

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

Zombiesmith's A7D12 and CP Models' Alien Federation ranges, both sculpted by PF, contain a nice mix of humanoid and very alien miniatures.  Many of the AE: Bounty miniatures, also sculpted by PF, while still humanoid (bipedal with two arms), are at least a little less human than your typical bumpy-headed aliens, with odd proportions and sizes, maybe tails or spines, etc.

The two Koralon ranges, first by i-Kore and the second by Urban Mammoth, are both very alien-looking.

The Kryomek miniatures are also very alien, and similar to Tyranids in many ways, with clear "Aliens" influences.

Mantic Dreadball and Deadzone teams (rebels, I think) have some non-humanoid models, too.

With regards to your questions, I lean towards getting models that I like, and finding rules in which I can use them.

[Mr Evil]

I have had the same issues, i started writing a wargame 20 years ago with lost of aliens and a younger brain, and last year i re wrote and devoted it to modern, but its come full circle now and ive added rules for using aliens, infact the game allows you to create your own types of aliens and how they fit in the games universe.

at its roots there is nothing to stop you using just normal human stats in your games for aliens but build a army list that gives them the feel you want.

one issue i have is when in scifi games all the technology and races are basicly a biillion types of infantry and a few vehicles, in modern warfare there is generaly 1 - 3 levels of training for infantry and generaly speaking none are close combat units running around with chainsaws and pistols. modles running around with in a modern like force with close combat weapons and maybe jump packs, show there is a 40k slant to the rules, wich to me shows something is rather wrong.... you should be wanting to shoot your enemy and not run up to them and hit them with a stick..... unless doing fantasy or ancients..

hell by starlight if i recall correctly treated alines by how thier phycology played out, thats quite a nice idea i feel.

Also with aliens do you want hard scifi or do you want fantasy aliens.. a fantasy alien for example is say a centuar with a laser gun, why would an alien have 2 rib cages ?

this brings me to greys, the traditional grey is small grey and humanoid, wich is all well and good, but doesnt say apex predator, so how did it evolve to be the superior species ? or have they de evolved from an apex predator to a technology reliant inteligence, (kinda the way we humans are heading)

another thought is robots, why are we making robots look like humas, is it because its the most evolutionary effective body shape or is it because it looks right ? robots are evolving faster than humans so we could soon start seeing what aliens could look like that have evolved to be superior to humans maybe ?

Aliens i like are the ones from Battle for LA, and independance Day, independance day alien had some great ideas, ot was both highly evolved, relied on its technology and was still an apex predator, this to me says they thought about the end result.

just my morning after cup of tea thoughts.

[tnjrp]

Humans didn't evolve from apex predators either.

Anyhow, as to the original subject...

There are some exotic xenos out there to be sure but they tend to be either bugs (Arachnids, Koralon "purebreds", Kryomeks, Tyranids, Xenomorphs) or random odds and ends with very few sculpts to their name (all others I can think of really). This would be a bit of a problem if you are thinking of wargaming with them, not so much if you want them for window dressing in a random scenario or whathaveyou.

With Lovecraftean stuff, there can be quite a few sculpts and poses of a single xeno but they are produced by dozens of different companies at different times, thus being not really very compatible with each other sizewise or aesthetically. Also they are often represented as "critters/monsters" instead of sapients, even tho 4X Great Race had a civilization and advanced technology (even tho it looks like they didn't wear actual clothes). This last obviously again may or may not be a problem, depending on you mileage.

As to someone giving thought to releasing a truly alien race that actually can be used to make up an army in a wargame setting, there is always Primeval Abyssian (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=29637.0) and theoretically even Total Extiction (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56580.0), tho I'm hardly holding my breath expecting ever personally seeing a single miniature from those (despite there apparently being some form of piecemeal and really slow fulfillment of pledges still going on for the latter). Both lines have what might be classified as "bugs" or "critters" tho so they aren't a "perfect" solution but at least they are going a bit further out on the limb than most.

[Zaheer]

The problem is probably that it's hard to empathise truly with anything that isn't humanoid. I'd be very interested in seeing a game/range that manages to make me care about truly non-human aliens (being one for the underdogs), but I would imagine that this would be a really hard ask with the models alone. How do you empathise with a tentacled blob without an awful lot of backstory which is surplus to requirement for the vast majority of gamers. And even with a lot of fluff, I feel that these types of aliens will always be seen as monsters unless they have a human morality or behaviour, which is just making them less alien in a different way.

There are a few races in Barlowe's Extraterrestrials book which are non-human enough for me but are still basically tubes-with-legs-at-one-end-and-eyes-at-the-other, my particular favourite being this guy:



...Who's getting his flatworm on. I think that's about as far away from 'human' as I'd go, which is probably on par with Tyranids etc. I shy away from 'tentacled monstrosities', finding them a bit dull really. What I would love to see is some of these types human-ish aliens being expanded to ranges as the Quar are with civilians, leaders etc.

[tnjrp]

The problem is probably that it's hard to empathise truly with anything that isn't humanoid

I hear this quite often when a discussion of this subject comes up and I do wonder if the majority or even a large minority of miniature gamers* really empathize with the hypothetical critters that are represented by the miniatures -- and also, occasionally, if I should worry about them doing so. I for one don't -- not by my understanding of the term empathy anyway -- and I'm not sure if anybody who really wants to see exotic xenos in miniature does, but then again miniature and game designers seem to think such folks are in a minority that can be safely ignored for whatever reason. I'm just not quite convinced yet that reason is deep research and if it is, does that research factor in the empathy factor.

---

*) Things are different if you consider RPG players obviously.

[The_Beast]

If not empathize, then at least, recognize. You can do a 'horta' with a flat-on-one-side lava stone, paint it up a treat, and, unwounded, it's still 'a rock.' Unless you're a trekkie like me.

Doug

[Zaheer]

I hear this quite often when a discussion of this subject comes up and I do wonder if the majority or even a large minority of miniature gamers* really empathize with the hypothetical critters that are represented by the miniatures -- and also, occasionally, if I should worry about them doing so. I for one don't -- not by my understanding of the term empathy anyway -- and I'm not sure if anybody who really wants to see exotic xenos in miniature does, but then again miniature and game designers seem to think such folks are in a minority that can be safely ignored for whatever reason. I'm just not quite convinced yet that reason is deep research and if it is, does that research factor in the empathy factor.

Well I admit I'm using the term loosely, but it certainly possible to empathise with inanimate objects, images or characters that represent the human form in general - art, cinema, literature etc. Perhaps it is more difficult to do this with non-humanoids unless they ape  humans in some other way.

[Hoser]

Some great replies here guys, thanks! I'm really stoked by the Primeval Abyssian stuff- it's even more out there than the aliens I had in mind!

I like the Alien Legion figs, especially the non-humanoids with the tech that allows them to walk, for example. They do all use humanoid weapons, and it would be nice to see some with weapons designed for their own physiology. Maybe even humanoids with technological adapters that allow them to use the same non-humanoid weapons...

The A7-D12 figs are also quite imaginative. Would like to see more of their non-humanoids with native weaponry.

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

Oh!

That post of the Cygnan from Barlowe's guide to extraterrestrials (a spectacular book) reminded me, Space Vixens From Mars do an alien race that resembles them (a bit cartoonier, though), which they call Leylandii.

[Connectamabob]

I prefer "alien" aliens. In fact I consider many of the "alien" aliens cited (such as tyrannids) to not fit the bill, as they still have too many humanoid or token chimeric traits ("it's got crab claws, that makes it an alien!" ). And I don't really experience the empathy problem: yes they can be harder to read in terms of expressions and body language, but that doesn't make them less sympathetic or more prone to be seen as "monsters" to me (TBH, the fact that other people do have these responses kind of creeps me out a little).

That said, most sci-fi tabletop games are firmly in the pulp/space-opera bands of stylistic spectrum to begin with, so it doesn't really bug me too much that really alien aliens aren't well represented. There's no inconsistency there.

I don't really care for "blob of random tentacles/sub-blobs" type aliens though, as that always just seems really lazy to me. I like aliens that have a sense of function to their anatomy. Creatures that look like they evolved into something that's as much of an actual purposeful structure as any animal/plant, just a structure or purpose different than what we're used to. A chaotic splat of parts is IMO just something people do when they don't have any real ideas.

Actually, I feel like it's an ongoing problem that there's a tendency for illustrators, sculptors, and fans to "de-alienize" the more alien aliens. Illustrations of Cthulhu should go out of their way to defy or ignore familiar anatomy as much as possible, but instead they almost always give him/it human-like musculature and joint mechanics, making him/it look merely like a slightly cartoonish man with weird skin and an octopus hat. Kzin are explicitly described in almost every one of their appearances in the novels as being only impressionisticly cat-like, while being very alien in their explicit appearance. They don't literally look like cats, they just have a sort of strong cat-like vibe to human eyes... but everyone always just draws them as straight-up tiger furries, to the point where I start to suspect that if someone actually did a version that accurately embodied the text, the fans would reject it for not being a cat. Stuff like this makes me think that, contrary to popular belief, enjoying imaginative works is not actually connected to having a strong imagination.

I've noticed Lovecraft fandom has a tendency to treat ALL the mythos creatures as monsters, even though this isn't strictly the case in the stories. A number of them are either ambiguous or complex in their disposition to humans, but are treated as "always chaotic evil" by fans. Others are even explicitly sympathetic, or give strong hints towards being either sympathetic or complex in a way that includes sympathetic possibilities, but again: "always chaotic evil" as far as pop culture is concerned. Yeah, the stories are horror stories, but more because of the protagonist's shock at having his worldview broken than because the creature is definitely malevolent. I don't think that's an empathy thing, rather I think it's a case of pop culture tending to dumb everything down: "it's horror, ergo creatures = monsters, 'cause horror = monsters".

[tnjrp]

That said, most sci-fi tabletop games are firmly in the pulp/space-opera bands of stylistic spectrum to begin with, so it doesn't really bug me too much that really alien aliens aren't well represented. There's no inconsistency there

Yep. All the same, at least one armchair biomechanics expert shows up when somebody comes up with a suggestion for an exotic xeno to explain why the said xeno isn't realistic. For some reason there is less of that if someone suggest a catgrrl xeno with big boobies

Stuff like this makes me think that, contrary to popular belief, enjoying imaginative works is not actually connected to having a strong imagination

Most likely not, but I'm still of a mind that speculative miniature gaming genre is populated by designers with even less imagination than is the norm in the larger field of speculative fiction.

[Legion1963]

Indeed. Aliens with guns? Boring! Once i read a scifi book called 'Waystation' about a guy who was a manager for stop-over for a interplanetary or cross- dimentional route through the universe(s). That had some nice ideas. But as for alien conflict materiel i realy like the whole Lovecraftian thingy. Unspeakable abominations that want to suck brains out living humans. :-)