Mike Bravo Miniatures: Updates etc (28mm Moderns)

[Mike Bravo Minis]

love to silhouette idea - that will be the guide for my painter!   In deference to Arlequin I'll avoid speculating further on the 'Not...' theme but I like your thinking...

Ray - first lot of squaddies will be rocking the flak vest/dpm/lightweights look.  A future batch will be a more non-regulation S Armagh look.  Neither particularly BAOR like but good for Winter of '79 sort of thing. 

[carlos marighela]

Oh come on! Sean MacStuffin [sic] (deliberately so) has been dead for donkey's years and it's all bygones be bygones with the Belfast Town Councillors. 

I like the silhouette chap idea. Riffing on that theme  I've long thought that if someone were to do a line of Figure 11 targets they would make great table top markers, chits or blinds for un-spotted figures. Easy enough to print 'em on on card yerself I suppose. I might just do that for giggles.

[Arlequín]

Just to be clear, the theme is fine, it's the mention of current MPs that's the issue. Some folk get touchy about NI, but it is indeed in the past now and as far as the forum is concerned, the height of the 'Troubles' is well within the 2000 AD end point of this board... so quite legit in my eyes.

 

Seriously though, I used to pour over numerous photos of the Warsaw Pact forces and never found that guy on the target... how I was supposed to spot him amongst several million Warpac soldiers used to keep me awake at night... in comparison "Where's Wally" was a breeze.

 

[carlos marighela]

Seriously though, I used to pour over numerous photos of the Warsaw Pact forces and never found that guy on the target... how I was supposed to spot him amongst several million Warpac soldiers used to keep me awake at night... in comparison "Where's Wally" was a breeze.

 

 On the basis on the tin hat and a rifle that look a bit like an FN FAL, I suspect the subliminal message was to shoot the Dutch or Belgians.

[Arlequín]

Definitely the Belgians, if he was meant to be Dutch he'd have a hairnet. I did always wonder about the FN though; someone said that they were made from U.S. designs, which obviously caused even more anxiety. 

[Harry von Fleischmann]

Looking at the idea of figures for NI - something I have no wish to game -  I agree that with the Winter of 79 concept and the various other "UK in meltdown" ideas, these figures don't have to be terribly specific to Belfast. Dodgy fashion and long hair was pretty common......as long as no one is carrying a silenced ingrams for example they could be anyone.....

[Harry von Fleischmann]

One type of figure that might be of interest, is plain clothes types, ie police or similar in sports coats, shirt sleeves with shotgun / pistol. I'm thinking of the chaps who raid the bookies office in series 2 of "Underbelly". I know they were Aussies but.....the look is useful.

[Mike Bravo Minis]

Cheers Harry, will look that up. 

Although the initial Brits are really NI figures, the range will be developed more around the Winter of '79 concept so looking at ideas for civvies and undercover types that can all do double duty.  Some should also be passable for Lebanon '82 to tie in with the IDF that I have planned.

[Ray Earle]

Look forward to seeing these. 

[Arlequín]

Some should also be passable for Lebanon '82 to tie in with the IDF that I have planned.

I think you might find that hard to pull off... the 'average' weather for the UK and the Lebanon will result in differing typical clothing... unless you plan to model your IDF in their Winter parkas and snow suits to match. T-shirts and jeans works for ten months of the year in Beirut, but only a few weeks (or days) in the UK... as you are going for 'Winter 79', rather than 'The odd day in May or June 79', the crossover potential might be limited.

I tend to find the best ranges go for one thing and if they 'can be used as' then it's a happy coincidence. Those that go for more generic looks usually end up as neither one thing nor another. The most common weapon in the Lebanon in '82 was the AK and its derivatives, while Israel's 'allies' balanced this with M16s (and usually Israeli uniforms). Generic AK-armed terrorists are of somewhat more recent vintage than '79-'82 in Western Europe.

In NI the Armalite was the most commonly 'photographed and depicted' IRA weapon (it was also the subject of a song), followed by the G3, but older stuff like the Uzi, M1/M2 Carbine, Garands, Tommy Gun etc. were actually more common on the streets. All of these largely came from the U.S.A. and by extension these same suppliers would probably be used by 'UK Freedom Fighters'; at least until they were mostly shut down in the early '80s. Likewise ETA used the same sources, as they attempted to source weapons through the IRA. Germany's RAF found it virtually (but not totally) impossible to get 'foreign' weapons of any kind, barring some locally-sourced stolen H&K types.

Supply of 'Soviet' weapon types was far more a feature of the Early-Mid '80s onwards when Gaddafi restored relations with the IRA and other groups and the NORAID-funded shipments from the U.S. were being interrupted (by limited cooperation between the F.B.I., Garda and MI5). Before then the few AKs and RPGs that had featured in a couple of earlier Libyan shipments were rarely if ever encountered.  

So for my money at least 'European' terrorists and 'Middle East' terrorists of c.1980 are going to look quite different in dress and equipment... just sayin.

[carlos marighela]

Not that many keffiyah's worn in Northern Ireland.

What was that PJ O'Rourke line about the Lebanese Civil War? Something like 'armed conflict between gangs of heavily armed hairdressers' or words to that effect.

[Harry von Fleischmann]

PJ O'Rourke - classic stuff!

Re W79, Ive always visualised a fair bit of SLR simply because it screams 1970s British Army but also the whole spectrum of sten gun, M3, M1 carbine, Enfield, pretty much all the stuff listed is viable. Don't forget the Bren was rechambered and soldiered on still.  Apparently there were lots of Enfields held in reserve for police / emergency use - and that's where a lot of the .303 ammunition supplied to Afghanistan by the CIA came from......

Im not a fan of AK47 or much WARPACT kit in w79 but if you see it as a faction based game, you could have some hard left militia with AK on the basis that the Russians had landed a crate or three and a Spetznatz cadre from a trawler or submarine.

A lot of my Free Taff troops are Hotspur Argentines......but I digress.

Iirc there were some Lebanese militia in 20mm that were in fatigues, balaclava and M16, that may be the style of crossover; a figure in bomber jacket and jeans with a scarf wrapped around the face could have the scarf in Millwall colours or arab style check pattern.....

[carlos marighela]

Poor old Millwall.... No sorry, I retract that.  F*#k Milwall, they deserve all they get

Have a look at the Liberation miniatures range for 20mm militia, also the old Combat Miniatures/ Hotspur range ( no idea who carries those now). They had a dedicated Lebanon 1982 line as well as British Army in IS gear. They were pretty good minis for their era.

In 28mm if you dig through the  Gripping Beast/Mofo Africa range, there's chap in a head scarf with an M-60 that's useable.  I thought about painting mine up for the Moro liberation army. The PIRA had at least one M-60, so why not hand 'em out to belligerent Welshmen?

For Lebanon have a look at some of the Eureka Somalis in headscarf (also sans headscarf) there are some useful figures if you turn sandals into trainers by way of greens stuff or the judicious application of craft knife and paint.

[Arlequín]

Not that many keffiyah's worn in Northern Ireland.

What was that PJ O'Rourke line about the Lebanese Civil War? Something like 'armed conflict between gangs of heavily armed hairdressers' or words to that effect.

Not that many worn in the Lebanon outside of the PLO either... but indeed in '76 'big hair' was very common... like Zoolander with guns.

Iirc there were some Lebanese militia in 20mm that were in fatigues, balaclava and M16, that may be the style of crossover;

That style was particularly popular with the Al Amal militia I seem to recall, whose main force were originally Lebanese Army troops... hence the M16s and M60s they used.

Even then what is effectively a camo 'shirt' over a t-shirt looks very different to a lined camo 'jacket' over a jumper, shirt and vest.

[Mike Bravo Minis]

Oh 'eck, I've set hares racing! 

Sorry, had typed the last message with one hand whilst bottle feeding with the other so was perhaps a bit too brief!  All good points, and I hadn't meant that we'd just do generics and hope they'd fit for both conflicts.  I was more driving towards the idea that eventually we'd have a small bit sizeable range of different terrorist/insurgent types, some of which would have cross over potential for different theatres but you'd have distinctly recognisable packs for one or the other. 

What it might just be is that you might see one or two masters that get the AK/webbing/heads for Lebanon but might be wielding an AR-15/no webbing/heads for the UK.  That kind of thing.  To make the range viable I'll have to see what masters can be re-purposed with a bit of converting.  And some might just be a case of providing separate heads so people can do what they like with them.   

Also Winter '79 becomes summer '80 fairly easily so we can probably do a mix of outfits across the range (but again, within packs they'd be distinct) so people can create whatever factions they feel like.

Hope this clarifies/reassures!