Non-Wizard Leaders?

[Wyrmalla]

Perhaps something already discussed and this may not be the manner to ask this, but I had a pondering. Are non-Wizard leader types planned for a future expansion?  I'd be interested in seeing just your regular blokes, mercenary captains, petty nobility, merchant chiefs and the like. Not everyone in the world who wants to make a buck has to be a mage, nor is there a ton of wizards around to begin with.

Now this concept may err against the style of the game with its magic and all that. I can understand that. Though I could see such characters functioning similar to Wizards to an extent. Instead of having spells they'd have orders and personal wargear, and would have more of an emphasis on personal stats. Hopefully being balanced enough to take on wizards through those merits, or should a captain (or whatever they'd be called) be taken you would boost the maximum number of soldiers in your warband by a small number (and/or the starting gold).

Just a thought of course. Perhaps bundled in with an expansion which also included an addon to the existing soldiers, with things like assassins and merchants (who'd boost your out of game gold intake, but suck at combat). At the moment though you could perhaps proxy such a character by taking a wizard and changing the names of their spells.

Thoughts? 

[robh]

There is some discussion of this on TMP too...seems plenty of people over there who have not played the game have clear ideas on ways to improve it  

Personally I hope not. I would much rather see that game developed in its own right rather than trying to jury rig amendments to a game that was not designed for it.

From previews it looks as if the Otherworld Skirmish Game may well be that "other game"

[Daeothar]

Having toyed with several other games, stripping all the fluff and just keeping the stats, I can say from experience that it is fairly easy to shoehorn existing stats into a new fluffy coat.

An area effect spell can become a command, high health can become armour, an offensive spell a ranged weapon, etc, etc.

Personally, I'd prefer to maintain the spirit of the game though, as this is in the first place a setting of wizard vs wizard with some backup to do the dirty work.

A game where magic users are the most important, instead of always being forced into a support role. (and let's be honest; any individual with that kind of powers would soon be the alpha (fe)male in any group; the apex predator, especially when they are no slouch in hand to hand combat either. No noble title or army rank can compensate for those powers!)

But then again; Joe has repeatedly stated that this is the framework and players are encouraged (maybe even expected?) to 'make it their own', in other words; houserule it to your heart's content. And non-magic using leaders could be just that...

[Hupp n at em]

My one thought with non-wizard leaders is that for every wizard who is descending on Frostgrave for knowledge, wouldn't there be 15 treasure hunters or mercenaries? Would these guys wait around for a wizard's party to join, or band together and head in to loot the place? Maybe it would take away from the spirit of the game a bit, but I could see if you were playing Frostgrave solo where "your wizard vs the muggle looters" could work quite nicely.

[ducat]

Rather than replacing the wizard, I could see a mercenary "captain" type replacing the apprentice slot (would take the same place as apprentice in the activation sequence too). with a set stat line and maybe some "orders" they could give in lieu of casting the wizards spells.

This would give the option without messing too much with the core of the rules.

It should also be a lot simpler to create.

Another option would be to make this captain type a Master Rogue, or a Head Apothacary, or a Barbarian chieftan etc etc

run a slight improved stat line in places and let them give a boost to something appropiate for others of their lesser type activating with them in their activation phase.

ie: the two barbarians that activate with him get a +1 fight in that activation step as he commands them to rage....

[horridperson]

@ducat

going with your suggestion of a merc captain possibly filling the shoes of an apprentice I think it would dovetail nicely into development of henchman progression.  I like the idea of a knight having the ability to take a, "Leader of Men" skill that would allow him to act and motivate 3 other henchmen in the apprentice phase just like the lesser wizard.

[Corporal Chaos]

Ok to tweak or expand on this. Maybe not a replacement for the apprentice but a lieutenant to orginize and command the men. Give exp for personal kills at half what the wiz gets and develope some basic tactical orders to fulfill the lack of magic. It won't overpower him and will be a rally point for the soldiers. Combining this with the suggestions above for the type of LT selected. Barbarian, knight, Thief etc. just to give a flavor to the favored henchman and add a bit to his retainer fee for his ability to command the men for his lord. A fanatical warrior with total devotion to the Wizard. I like this brain storming. If the Wiz and apprentice happen to perish he will take the band on to other less eclectic jobs in a " normal" battle zone. I like the ideas. 

[Stepman3]

Gandalf had Aragorn...

[Awesome Adam]

Frostgrave is a cursed city, filled with magic and monsters. Just think about how ineffective your warband would be without the wizard and apprentice, and that gives you a practical reason why they don't venture forth without a spell slinger.

Also, I like to imagine that Frostgrave is shrouded by magic, and only the Wizards can pierce the veil to locate it.

[Knightofspades]

Just call one of your other models the leader and have the groups backstory be that the wizard is either to senile or to "distanced from the mortal coil of the world" to care who leads the party and only really stepping up in combat situations. Off course the wizard could be the power behind the throne as well just making the band believe that they are in charge. Or you could say that one of the figures were the leader of the mercenary warband the wizard hired and that they are often in each others throats about what course of action to take.
Changing the game rules to reflect other leaders than wizards would not work in my opinion because the game is all about the wizards.

[Fencing Frog]

Gandalf had Aragorn...

Exactly what came to my mind.

[Achilles]

Owen is tinkering with a War Priest (Enchanter, focuses on augment spells like Strength, Enchant Weapon, Mystic Shield, Posession, Fast Feet) who will have upped fight, a magic weapon and basically be a brawler. You can make a pretty Tanky wizard by power levelling the Aug spells and just leveling up (max Fight to 5, buy or enchant a magic Hand Weapon for +1/2, Strength for +2, Possession for +2, it's pretty easy to get to +10 fight fairly quickly) Mystic shield for Damage Prevention. Heal to get Wounds back. Get protective Rings/Cloaks with your cash. Leap or Teleport to get into the action (you can't leap into combat, but can within 1" to force combat on the enemy's next activation).

[Fencing Frog]

Owen is tinkering with a War Priest (Enchanter, focuses on augment spells like Strength, Enchant Weapon, Mystic Shield, Posession, Fast Feet) who will have upped fight, a magic weapon and basically be a brawler. You can make a pretty Tanky wizard by power levelling the Aug spells and just leveling up (max Fight to 5, buy or enchant a magic Hand Weapon for +1/2, Strength for +2, Possession for +2, it's pretty easy to get to +10 fight fairly quickly) Mystic shield for Damage Prevention. Heal to get Wounds back. Get protective Rings/Cloaks with your cash. Leap or Teleport to get into the action (you can't leap into combat, but can within 1" to force combat on the enemy's next activation).

This has be my approach actually (with some variation)

[Bloodaxe]

Like Mordheim.  Spellcasters were secondary. A "fighter" leads the warband.  Perhaps increase the maximum # for the warband, limit spellcaster to "apprentice".  Possibly some way to increase the skill of the warrior leader.

[Coenus Scaldingus]

Gandalf had Aragorn...

And look what happened when he got in charge! The whole Fellowship falls apart, Boromir dies, Merry and Pippin are captured, and Frodo and his gardener have to do all the hard work by themselves. Nah, better to keep that wizard near I'd say...