Using small figures for cover advantages

[UniversalSoldierDeutsch]

Hi,

One of regular Frosrgrave players has started using a goblin warband with an Orc Wizard and is making sure he is always using terrain that is low walls that covers more than 50% of his figures for the +4 bonus while ensuring all the regular warbands only get +2 bonus as they are too big to get a heap of the cover. This also ensures his Wizard has line of sight while getting protection with intervening models.

This really rubs me the wrong way and I'm just wondering if anyone has encountered this in their groups and how have they dealth with it. This person is pretty notorious for exploiting wvery loop hole they can find and it takes away from such a fine game.

[Awesome Adam]

1.) Is he using Goblins for weak soldiers like thieves and thugs, or is he using them for everything ?

2.) Is this an actual issue for your gaming group, or does it just bug you personally ?

If he's using them for everything, and it's an issue for your gaming group as a whole, you could just tell him that you feel he's modeling for advantage and ask him to stop.

Personally, Gobbos for thieves, and maybe thugs, is subject to rule of cool, and I think it's cooler and in more in character, than anything game breaking.

Now, if he's just using them for everything other than his wizard, just for the cover bonus, and it's an issue for your group, you are all justified in asking him to use more appropriate models. That would be like someone using 15mm fantasy models while everyone else is using 28mm, just a game advantage.

[Elbows]

Stop playing with him.  If he asks why, just tell him you're not enjoying the games as much because of his play-style.  Doesn't have to be argumentative or mean, just honest.

[UniversalSoldierDeutsch]

Yep unfortunately it's for all his figures including the apprentice. Just the Wizard is an orc. Everyone else tiny and cover bonus.

[Awesome Adam]

Then I would point out to him that he is being a douche and should be using all human sized models. If he objects saying there is no rule about model height, inform him that appropriate models are human sized like his Orc.

Alternatively, you could field a force made entirely of LOTR halflings  

In the interest of full disclosure, my gaming group had no objections to me fielding Reaper Bones Halflings for thieves. We haven't had the same problems you encountered, but I think it mostly has to do with not having terrain low enough to provide the halflings cover without benefiting humans, and I haven't used them as living shields.

[Bloodaxe]

Time for a Halfling warband?!  Sounds like a WAAC, not so fun player.....

[Xintao]

I think the player is being a jerk. So before the game all agree, what the defense modifiers is for each piece of terrain, regardless of figure used. That makes it fair for all.

Xin

[frogimus]

I think the player is being a jerk. So before the game all agree, what the defense modifiers is for each piece of terrain, regardless of figure used. That makes it fair for all.

Xin

This forum needs a "like" button. I don't think this is specified in the rulebook, but so many games have this rule that it should be automatic for gamers.

[Darkson71]

Have a quiet word with him, either individually or as a group, and explain that while it's not against the rules, it's against the spirit of them.  If that doesn't work, either just don't play against him or use 15mm/6mm figures and paly a game where he can't even see you.

We only have a few smaller than human figures, but often use a rule we stole from Warmachine in that a model "occupies" a rectangle that is equal to the base size in height, so even if the model can't be seen, it's rectangle can be.

[PhilM]

It does depend on his reasoning, if he likes the models and has a cool theme, that's one thing and as he's being consistent it does sound like that's at least part of his reason, if that's the case, it should be easy enough to talk to him about how his modelling is giving him an advantage and what you can do to mitigate it.

However, I'm not sure I like the idea of abstracting Line of Sight though, always seems to either lead to more arguments or makes it take longer to sort things out and requires templates and stuff. Seems an inelegant solution to me. I'd either reduce the amount of cover on the table for games with him, reducing his advantage (he's likely avoiding ranged troops of his own as they'd not get Line of Sight to shoot in a normal game, or lay out the table with more levels to get high ground, so you can remove that advantage.

However, if he's doing it purely for the gaming advantage, then its probably unlikely he'll concede that point and in my experience of such people, you're honestly just better off not playing them any more and letting them know why. They'll either change their ways or just not be able to play anyone anymore.

The way I see it, Frostgrave is very open and the rules aren't tight. As such, there aren't so much loopholes as there are situations where the game expects you to be sporting and fair to each other, so its not exploiting the game, its exploiting the other players, which is much worse. He's been given an inch by the system and he's taken a mile. I think shunning is best option for unsporting players.

[ogretyrant]

This is why I don't like 'true line of sight' it is so easy to model for advantage even when you don't realise your doing it! My preferred method of sight is skirmish games is volume. Give everything a size, for example a Hobbit could be size one a human size two and an ogre size three and so on. All size categories are mounted on appropriate round bases, 25mm for example for size one and two, 40mm for size three and so on. Then each size category has a height. So you could have the goblin themed warband but wii need to be mounted on the correct base and will be the same height as a size two.

[Aging Mammal]

Just define the height of the cover before the game begins.
As we have lots of the 4ground walls that in some games we just say that the walls are as depicted or that they extend straight up.
It only takes a few minutes to clarify all terrain at the start of a game.

Also remember that it can work both ways as big chaps could shoot from cover that we guys can't see over.

[Mr Vampire]

You and all the other players should turn up to your next game with 15mm miniatures without telling him a see what happens.

[monkeylite]

You and all the other players should turn up to your next game with 15mm miniatures without telling him a see what happens.

With 30mm long periscopes.

[grant]

Garden Gnome band from Peter Pig. Perfect solution. The even have a Wizard model. A small cut in the hat, and you can bend them over to make them smaller.

http://www.peterpig.co.uk/range19.htm