Napoleon in Egypt- kinda project

[AWu]

I started few months ago my small project of Napoleonic skirmish.

When many people are doing Napoleon in Egypt, I want for What happens when napoleon is in Egypt..
mainly Italian campaigns of Championnet up to Marengo (if dear general Bonaparte shall return from said Egypt*)  where French and Polish forces were fighting against Papal forces and Kingdom of Sicily and their murderous rustic cutthroat bands (most famously led by Fra Diavolo)


Before photo compulsory photos of first units i have question.

Do anyone here have any information and visual material as to papal and Sicilian forces in 1796-1800 period ?
I am a little bit struck there.



* maybe some inside Egypt fights too if I will find good way to convert the enemy models from plastic Mahdists)

[AWu]

Hmm.. strange double post

[Cadet13]

Phillip Haythornthwaite's Uniforms of the French Revolutionary Wars has a black-and-white plate and some info on a Papal infantryman. I don't have the book to hand at the moment, but IIRC the uniforms were Austrian influenced. I'll double check it when I get home.

Edit: Yes, they were Austrian influenced. Here's the plate's accompanying blurb.

"Btn 'Castel S. Angelo': black leather helmet with brass badge and crest edging, red cockade with yellow edge. White coat with light green collar, cuffs, turnbacks and shoulder straps, white metal buttons; white breeches and gaiters with white metal buttons; white belts with brass plate, brown bayonet scabbard with brass tip."

[commissarmoody]

Looking forward to see more of this

[grant]

Always enjoy Napoleonic Egyptian stuff.

[AWu]

"Btn 'Castel S. Angelo': black leather helmet with brass badge and crest edging, red cockade with yellow edge. White coat with light green collar, cuffs, turnbacks and shoulder straps, white metal buttons; white breeches and gaiters with white metal buttons; white belts with brass plate, brown bayonet scabbard with brass tip."

Great find Cadet13. Thanks a lot (I was thinking it would be  close to austrian style..)
Although the helmet looks unfamiliar (i havent seen anything similar).
I will have to look for some picture (maybe museum piece photo) from the other side to know how to make it.
From the sound of it my Austrians are almost match in colours, but the helmet I use is later Austrian one.


Any chance for Sicilian army in this book ?

Civita Castellana is my preferred campaign and I see that this  first humiliation of General Mack (of latter Ulm fame - or infamy) don't even have its own English page on wikipedia :O

Always enjoy Napoleonic Egyptian stuff.

Well its play of words on old Polish joke about Lenin.

Napoleon in Egypt project but without the napoleon.
Whye there is no Napoleon ?
Because he is in Egypt at the time :>

[Argonor]

Interesting subject - what scale/size models are you using?

[AWu]

All my Napoleonics are either 28 or 1:600.

Revolutionary wars in  Italy project is 28.

I am greatly tempted by AB 18mms as they are wonderfull and much smaller, but they would had to be ordered overseas and cost are very similar. 28mm skirmishing is letting me sculpt this or that easily and recreate uniforms in quite detail.

Main drawback is that such rare armies like Papal state or  Sicilians are more difficult to hand wave

[Cadet13]

Happy to help.  Unfortunately there is nothing about the Sicilian Army in the book. And as far as the helmet goes, maybe it is an Austrian style helmet, just drawn looking straight at it?

I hope you can track down some additional info on these obscure armies... researching uniforms really interests me.

[cdr]

The book on Sicilian armies in this period is l'esecito Borbonico dal 1789 al 1815 by Giancarlo Boeri and Piero Crociani.

https://www.facebook.com/www.comitatiduesicilie.it/posts/469898093150947

This link gives some images. There are 2 major styles in the Sicilian armies. Between 1789 and 1798 infantry in blue with regimental distinctions, white trousers  (uniforms rather Prussian looking), cavalry in white, mountain rifles in yellow, from 1799 uniforms wore white with blue trousers (foreign regiments wore red) , rifles in green , cavalry in white

hope this helps

Carl 

[AWu]

Great find cdr!!

I found this Image collection too
http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/collections/the-vinkhuijzen-collection-of-military-uniforms#/?roots=13:bd07a6c0-c546-012f-6cf8-58d385a7bc34/33:eddfee60-c548-012f-aacb-58d385a7bc34&tab=navigation

This looks like very difficult and controversial topic, but its some start at least..

[Argonor]

Looking at this one, I think it is fairly safe to assume that the papal infantryman 1794 is wearing an Austrian-style ridged helmet

http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47e2-7940-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99

[AWu]

I am nost so sure, remember that Austrians put them to use only after papl state failed as an army.

And while helmet itself looks kinda generic, I have doubts about that plume. It dont look at all as Austrian style.
Its more similar to  tarleton without back plume/ ridge

French army was using something similar at the time, that looks like quite popular style in 1780 and early 1790

1st from the left

But again backplume - thats curved into ridge crest - was present.

While papal from the picture looks bare apart from front plume.

[Argonor]

I don't think that's a front plume; note how the 'fluff' is shown down the sides, I think that suggests a 'mane' along a crest. If you see an Austrian helmet from the front, you would also see the edges of the ridge plume (or whatever it's called) that way.

[Cadet13]

This link has the Order of Battle for the Papal States at the time (in Italian):

http://it.cultura.storia.militare.narkive.com/Vr58zhqN/l-esercito-pontificio-1796-1809

I must say, tracking down anything definitive on the Papal Army from this time period is difficult.