Heresy Miniatures - curse of the dragon

[beefcake]

As with most I have a tonne of Heresy stuff. I quit the hobby as a late teen and then came back into it in my mid to late twenties. It was Heresy that was the draw-card for me so I really don't want to see it go under. I'd like to see more goblins like others say. I have three of his unit deals sitting unpainted along with a few randoms bought here and there. Must paint those guys!

[Rob_bresnen]

Sorry. I think the line of discussion was something like this:

1. While everyone here does want to support Andy and Dan, some people feel a tad thwarted in that endeavour by the fact that certain ranges (goblins, gangers, and possibly sci-fi troopers) could do with filling out with extra weapon options / troop types or complementing with adversaries to make them more "buyable".

2. On the subject of the gangers, Andy has previously stated elsewhere that IP issues may discourage him making a second gang, implying that if there was such a gang, it would be another "Notromunda" one.

3. I'm of the opinion (possibly a minority opinion, but that's fine) that it's time to move away from the Necromunda paradigm. A second Heresy gang could be something completely different.

But anyway, as I also said earlier, where Andy's "resource allocation" issues are concerned I think he's putting his sculpting efforts into things that do make sense right now. Fantasy monsters and dungeon denizens don't need much consolidating to be buyable, especially (hopefully) now that dungeon crawls and fantasy skirmishes with lots of random monster encounters seem to be on the upswing thanks to games like Otherworld and Frostgrave. Also, there always seems to be a market for plastic human sci-fi troopers, and enemies for the same are easy to source from elsewhere.

Thank you to Captain Blood for trying to bring this topic back on track.

I would concur with Rhoderic's  conclusions . Andy's range has always been a bit 'random' and could do with a bit of retrospective 'tidying up' to make it a bit more cohesive and useful. Another gang would make his bald gang more useful to me, as I could then play scifi skirmish games. Even if Andy sculpted some space cops that would be cool, as then the bald guys would be part of a range and not just proxy figures for everyone wanting to play Necromunda.

If there was a 'live' scifi gang skirmish game, a sort of descendent or illegitimate child of Necromunda (as Frostgrave is to Mordhiem) on the market then that would be even better.  

As an alternative idea, I have used Andy's bald guys as Vampires in a kind of Blade/Underworld game. They are great for that, with they black coats and the bat motif. The trouble is I never finished the project as there was a lack of suitable werewolves. If Andy wanted to do a range of werewolf bikers than I could finally finish my idea and his bald guys would look a bit less of a Necromunda clone and a bit more like the belonged in a different game.

http://fourcoloursupers.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/order-of-anubis-operatives-mcleod-and.html

[Momotaro]

Poster's remorse - needless antagonism snipped

[Rhoderic]

I think we're in danger of getting this thread locked by now.

I'll take much of the rap because I probably started it, but at any rate, we all of us have to stop now.

[Momotaro]

Indeed

[Gibby]

Well here's hoping that Heresy has had a decent number of orders since he had to put that blog post. It is a shame to see him struggle as much as he is. I think, judging by the Heresy facebook page, that he's had at least a month's worth of orders in the last few days, which is great. With the saga of the Dragon behind him and the Kickstarter stuff nearing completion, hopefully he can make the journey towards healing and expanding his business with new stuff that people want.

Also, I know we strayed a bit towards talking about rulesets but it was related directly to what was said about things Heresy could offer, so not totally off topic. I hope this thread doesn't get locked - it would help no one. Deleting the offending posts/parts of posts would be a fairer solution if the forum's word limit is reaching critical mass. 

[Captain Blood]

It's not a big problem. All discussions veer off topic a bit sometimes. It's just that whenever GW is tossed into the conversation, it tends to end up in a lengthy critique of GW and invariably leads to arguments. Which is why we have that GW thread for all that stuff 

[OSHIROmodels]

I put in a small £45 order on Friday, don't mind when it turns up as I've got plenty to keep me going 

cheers

James

[Vermis]

2. On the subject of the gangers, Andy has previously stated elsewhere that IP issues may discourage him making a second gang, implying that if there was such a gang, it would be another "Notromunda" one.

I dunno. Doesn't seem to worry Mad Robot too much.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2100/417676.page#8227848
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2100/417676.page#8237278

Though that might possibly rile Warner Bros. and Universal more. Anyway. I agree that it'd be interesting to see some different gangs from Heresy, outside the Necromunda bubble.

[Major_Gilbear]

Um, I can't see why Andy cannot release more sci-fi gangs or fantasy warbands due to "people not understanding how IP works"? Are you/he really telling me that that:

1) The "Baldies" gangers are not obviously intended to play Necromunda with?

2) The "Baldies" are not clearly his own take on a gang style/trope?

3) He cannot similarly come up with his own ideas for a generic gang types like "Punk girls" and "Techies"?


Likewise, if you only release models that are obviously for one specific game, don't be surprised if people make the link! There's nothing stopping him from adding other sci-fi specialists to the Baldies or other future gangs (hackers, infiltrators, drone operators, etc), and this would increase the versatility of his gangs even more as then they would be more useful for all sorts of games and not just Delaque stand-ins or whatever.

As for making new gang types that are not covered by Necromunda: I wouldn't worry! Necromunda included a pretty comprehensive range of different gang archetypes, and none of them were really very specific to Necromunda or 40k except in a few small details. If Andy does his own take on them, then they're even less so. For example, mutated scavengers is not unique to Necromunda any more than burly 'roid-ragers or sci-fi cowboys/bikers/hooded cultists are.

Anyway regardless of the game I intend to play using the models he makes, I still think he would do well filling out his ranges and looking to make gang/warband style groups of miniatures for future releases; I don't see why this would have to limit his creativity either.

[Rhoderic]

Um, I can't see why Andy cannot release more sci-fi gangs or fantasy warbands due to "people not understanding how IP works"? Are you/he really telling me that that:

1) The "Baldies" gangers are not obviously intended to play Necromunda with?

2) The "Baldies" are not clearly his own take on a gang style/trope?

3) He cannot similarly come up with his own ideas for a generic gang types like "Punk girls" and "Techies"?

I don't believe anyone in this thread is telling you that. The man himself seems to have expressed some ambivalent reluctance to do more Necromunda-style gangs due to IP, but in fairness it does seem to be ambivalent indeed, and it does not necessarily correspond with your representation of the statement.

For my own part I'm only saying that I'd be happy to see a second gang - any second gang, Necromunda-styled or not.

[Dim_Reaper]

Um, I can't see why Andy cannot release more sci-fi gangs or fantasy warbands due to "people not understanding how IP works"? Are you/he really telling me that that:

1) The "Baldies" gangers are not obviously intended to play Necromunda with?

2) The "Baldies" are not clearly his own take on a gang style/trope?

3) He cannot similarly come up with his own ideas for a generic gang types like "Punk girls" and "Techies"?

I wasn't, Andy was. In the Flock and Awe podcast. He could have been largely joking, but he's still pretty much right. It's not that he can't do that, it's just a question mark over whether or not GW will sue him, and it's always a risk. No least because GW can make companies bankrupt by arranging waves upon waves of legal costs. And the legal system pretty much forces GW to aggressively enforce its IP, or it loses it.

So companies that cater for their games, or do Not-Models are prime targets for GW in that respect. Most of the companies out there have had run ins with GW Legal. Mostly, they're just fishing. One 10mm miniature company got angry snark from GW Legal, because of Warmaster. That was until they pulled out a document of their sales showing that GW had purchased one of every one of their figures from their fantasy ranges. I wonder why they did that. Funnily enough GW Legal didn't bother them after that.

Andy mentions in the Podcast that they contacted him already as well, although I don't think it was the gangers. Anyway, as I've made several references to the Podcast, and I guess it is relevant, even though the Podcast is now quite old, here's a link, so judge for yourselves:

https://flockandawepodcast.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/episode-23-burn-the-heretic/

[Major_Gilbear]

Okay, well fair enough - although I do honestly think that sci-fi gangsters in trenchcoats is just as generic as techno-barbarians, punk-girl gangs, etc.

When I look at a lot of Andy's models, I actually feel a fair few of them sail (or have done) very close to the IP wind in general, and that the trenchcoat gangers are actually some of the most generic he makes!

Anyway, I've said what I said, and contributed what I have to this discussion. I will wish Andy well, and leave further discussions on the matter there.

[Rhoderic]

Received my Heresy parcel today (it had to spend some time in overseas shipping of course). There were some freebie figures in there (and a thank you note and sweets). VERY appreciated!

I expect I'll make another order soonish when more resin monsters start popping up in the webstore. I want more of those brilliant Waspquitoes, especially as the new castings are supposed to be easier to assemble.

[Elk101]

My order arrived very quickly too. Those ghouls are very nice indeed,  in a creepy,  sinister way. They'd make great husks for Mass Effect.

I hope Andy and Dan have had a decent run of orders.