Myth - any good? Or Descent? Or any dungeon-crawling alternatives ...

[Hobgoblin]

I'm considering getting a dungeon-crawling board game for the family, to help against the looming combination of bad weather and Christmas holidays.

Descent was the first one that sprang to mind, but I'm intrigued by Myth as well. Has anyone much experience of playing these? Which would work best with smallish kids (who can cope with skirmish games, King of Tokyo, Dungeon, Space Hulk, Settlers of Catan, etc, and can be prompted when need be)? And are there any particularly good alternatives?

I like the cooperative aspect of Myth, but I've seen frequent complaints about the clarity of the rules. I also want something that's fairly intuitive, so that the kids know what they're actually doing most of the time, and so that the goals are fairly clear to adults who might not be die-hard gaming fanatics ...

Ideally, I'd like a lot of different scenarios or layouts. A good, clear narrative in a campaign would be good. I'm not hugely bothered about the quality of the miniatures, as we'll probably just substitute in painted equivalents from the collection. The keys, really, are exploration, excitement and variety.

Any advice or pointers greatly appreciated!

[Treebeard]

I don't know Myth. I'm playing Descent with my 3 boys (15,11,and 6).
If there's no issue with the two older ones, the 6 years old have been catching the mechanism pretty well. It is very eased by the special dices which are straight forward to read and to understand (no chart or so to interpret the result).

He will (sometimes ) listen his older brothers for tactical advice or optimization but the least I can say is that he is having fun.

Descent (v2) is very combat oriented and the exploration is not the strong point starting by the fact that all the tiles lays before you.

As an alternative there's a free set of rules (I think the author is lurking this forum from time to time) which I found very clever, well written and quite simple : Cavern Crawl : http://drumsdeep.blogspot.fr/2012/08/cavern-crawl-my-dungeon-exploration.html

I haven't tested it with the younger one and it might be a little bit harder but depending on what age you are targetting it can be a very valid option.

If you have the minis and add to that the very good D&D Dungeon Tiles Master Set - The Dungeon that you can get for less than 20€. You have a much cheaper option.

Hope it helps.

[Maccwar]

Just to give you another option there's also Dungeon Saga which I'm currently having fun with.

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/dungeon-saga/product/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest.html

I introduced it to my D&D group last week and they seemed to enjoy it. One player said he preferred it to Descent but not having played it myself I can't comment.

Combat and movement seem pretty straightforward, if you give the dwarf or the barbarian to the 6 year old he might be able to play along.

[Duncan McDane]

You can download for free rules updates and clarifications for Myth. Not sure I'm allowed to post the link over here, but Google is your friend  .
I own the basic game, but haven't played it yet. Will do when the Journeyman Kickstarter arrives, somewhere mid 2016 or so.
Recently played Dungeon Saga from Mantic and that second that ( I don't know Descent... ). The basic rules are pretty easy to grasp but the game and it's options offer enough to make it a challenge for both the Overlord and the players.

[Hobgoblin]

This is great info - thanks!

Dungeon Saga is starting to look like a very interesting option. My kids are seven and four (almost five), but the four-year-old is getting the hang of quite a few games (the seven-year-old is a veteran). So, the more I mull it over, I think story and visuals are the key things (I'm evolving my requirements as I go!).

How replayable is Dungeon Saga? And how easy would it be to adapt to, say, orcish or beastman lairs once the undead campaign that (presumably) comes with it is played out?

Do keep any other suggestions coming!

[Major_Gilbear]

Given your comments, I think Descent might suit you rather well, and like all FF rules you can read the rules for free before you buy the game. Link to the rules here.

I think the key with Descent though is that you know the rules thoroughly and act as the DM, leaving the rest of the family to play as the heroes. I also recommend preparing the game in advance and using small plastic ziplock bags to keep all the different tokens tidy - there's a lot of stuff, and having it organised beforehand speeds the whole game up. The Esoteric Order Of Gamers also have some handy summary sheets here, and I find that having a few copies to hand for speedy consultation really helps too.

I cannot comment on Myth or Dungeon Saga though, as I don't own those.

[robh]

How replayable is Dungeon Saga? And how easy would it be to adapt to, say, orcish or beastman lairs once the undead campaign that (presumably) comes with it is played out?

Dungeon Saga basic game is pretty good and eventually once expanded will be great. Currently though Descent has better gameplay (as does Myth according to the players at my FLGS now the rules have been revised/clarified) Both Descent and Myth have better figures.

Dungeon Saga replayability with the undead is no problem if you make up the missions yourself, but you will not be able to play with any other races until the expansions are released over the coming year due to lack of stats (and more importantly the card decks), and even then the Bestiary is pathetic.

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks, Major_Gilbear and robh - much appreciated!

So, with Treebeard's recommendation, Descent is looking quite a good option. I shall read through the rules. I'll think about Cavern Crawl too, but I'm really after something that has a considerable narrative-campaign element from the start - something that keeps the family want to play "the next one".

I probably like the look of the Myth figures most, but that's a minor consideration.

Now, a question on figure substitution. I have lots of painted goblins and some undead, for example, which I presume I could easily use in place of the Descent plastics, leaving me free to paint up ettins, dragons and heroes pretty quickly. But does base size and shape matter at all? I get the impression that it might in Dungeon Saga.

[Major_Gilbear]

Just to note that Descent is not randomly-generated monsters; it does have a booklet full of narrative scenarios.

If you get a bit of time, see if you can find some play-throughs on YouTube - this will show you how the different games play.

[Hobgoblin]

Just to note that Descent is not randomly-generated monsters; it does have a booklet full of narrative scenarios.

If you get a bit of time, see if you can find some play-throughs on YouTube - this will show you how the different games play.

Thanks again! This is really helpful.

The narrative scenarios sound perfect.My idea would be to substitute as many miniatures as I can with painted ones I already have (a goblin's a goblin ...), to concentrate on painting up the "specials" quickly.

[Maccwar]

For Dungeon Saga the base size doesn't matter too much as long as the miniatures will fit in the correct number of squares. Most miniatures take up 1 25x25mm square, big things like trolls take up four squares and the dragon (from one of the expansions) is 3x3 squares IIRC. Facing is important.

Each dungeon saga expansion focuses on one type of enemy (undead, orcs and goblins, abyssals etc). There is a slim bestiary for other creatures in the adventurer's companion which is an expansion of its own (currently available to download from the kickstarter updates).

The Dungeon Saga tiles are very detailed and pretty (although not to everyone's tastes) and I like the miniatures.

---

On the other hand if you already have miniatures and tiles then Song of Gold and Darkness might be something worth checking out.

http://www.ganeshagames.net/product_info.php?products_id=8

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks, Maccwar.

I have - and like - Song of Gold and Darkness, but I suppose it's the boardgame/campaign aspect I'm really after here - something a bit "shiny" to lure everyone in. For reasons I can never quite fathom, certain (adult) family members are much more receptive to "board games" than "miniatures games"!

On that note, is it easy enough to vary the number of players between sessions of both Dungeon Saga and Descent? That is, to play one session with three players and the next with two or four?

[Duncan McDane]

That's easy with Dungeon Saga. One player plays the Overlord, the 4 heroes are played by 1-4 players. Doesn't matter if in one scenario the 4 heroes are played by 1 player and the next scenario 1 player takes the Elf/Dwarf and the other one the Barbarian/Sorcerer. Items, equipment and health are pre-determined at the start of each scenario, even if you didn't secure the item in the previous scenario ( but of course, if you had it then you'd be able to use it of course  ).

[Major_Gilbear]

My experience with these things (both the more miniatures-y games like Advanced Heroquest and Warhammer Quest, and the boardgame-y ones like Hero Quest and Descent) is that they are generally designed for a mixed party of four.

Descent does cater for different numbers of players (2-4 heroes, so 1-5 players).

Generally, if you have a small number of players, it is a good idea to have more heroes per player to balance out. So in a three player game, two players each play two heroes for example. However, a four player game with three heroes also works and is catered for.

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks again!

That's very helpful on both games. The differing party numbers inclines me somewhat towards Descent.

Reading through the Descent rules (thanks again, Major_Gilbear!), I'm struck by a superficial similarity to King of Tokyo/King of New York in the dice pools and dice symbols. My kids love those games, so that works in Descent's favour too.

As to the physical components, which of the two (Descent and Dungeon Saga) holds up best? I'm thinking more of the floor tiles than the miniatures here? Also, are the human-sized miniatures for Descent on (roughly) 25mm bases?