Author Topic: Rogvaldas' Northern Crusades: Baltic Pagan Army and Crusaders added (Read 6149 times)

AWu · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2016, 04:20:40 PM »

While I have to be very skeptical to provided historical background (part about origin of Slavic-Germanic [Saxons- realy] conflicts being in response up with Wendish raids in XII century is plain untrue).
I have to say you've made very nice set of miniatures!

ayak333 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2016, 04:47:05 PM »

You've neglected mentioning the Danes in your response. But, yes you are correct, the Saxon/Danish Princes were seeking more land. however, there was also the added benefit of pacifying the Baltic sea from Wendish raiding, which left the east coast of Zealand in tatters. And I was not referring to the origin of "Slavic-Germanic Conflict" I was referring to the origin of the Northern Crusades. But to place the blame on the Wendish raids for instigating was wrong, The "Germanic" Princes were responsible as well!

And Thanks for the compliment on the minis!

AWu · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2016, 12:35:14 AM »

More what i had in mind is time window..
Hard battles in Wendish lands are fought since IX century (some started in VIII and.

XII century is final effect of very long proces and western slavic lands (witgh some minor exceptions) are mostly in agony since mid XI century.

Thats fascinating period and armies to game. And I really like your miniatures.

I am thinking myself about creating add on for Dux Brittaniarum with campaign specific for fall of the Western Slav lands as they are almost mirror to fall of the Britons against the Saxons and great match for this wargame.

ayak333 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2016, 03:26:48 AM »

I also thought of doing a Dux Britaniarum campaign, set in the early 1200s Lithuania. My concern was always getting the right troop choices for the army compositions, and game balancing along with the varying armies. The famous Dalauppror did a medieval swedish/danish 1400s Dux variant. What units were you thinking of using? Light cav for the wends like the irish/scots raiders list (i didnt buy the expansion). I would love to hear your thoughts on the units!

AWu · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2016, 12:32:54 AM »

I am aiming into East Germany region.

Cavalry was very rare in western slavic army. Most of the units should probably be similar to Saxons in Dux, although not so heavily armed.
Western slavs used terrain heavily. And for most part slavs fought on foot, with cavary only as kings retainers.
Problem is that most of the tribes didnt had hereditary ruling family but were tribal quasi democracies. That did not help with westernization of warfare.

So Main force should be standard warriors with shields but without armour apart from helmets. with elite armored druzinha and armored foot northern (Danish, Wiking, Jomsviking, Polish, Western Pommeranian) mercenaries or allies. Cavalry only as single unit and later in the campaign = lot of archers/slingers.

I agree that balance could be a problem and maybe should be overcame by heavy use of terrain. Most successful Saxon raids were in winter, when marshes and rivers were frozen.
because when in bad situation Slavic forces often would just disappear in terrain and refuse fight.

I suppose it should be trial by error in playtest.

Problem with the Raider rules is that Slavs were mostly raided part not raiders, so I don't know if Raider forces could work (I didn't got supplement either - as I was never tempted into Britain really. I got the Dux at sale as an afterthought and I was surprised how cool its campaign system is (although I am yet to play aa actual game - I am just easily bought by cool campaign systems and pretty maps and the general idea of fall of the old order

Generally I would be very shy with cavalry unless you want to play late Lithuania (ie more southern) But north Lithuania was not very supportive to cavalry use. Very heavily forested area. Only later in XIII century when Teutonic order destroyed Jaćwięgs Lithuania proper was targeted but under Mendog it was proper country and not tribal federation.

Northern tribes of Todays Poland and Lithuania were not Wends (Wends were Slavic) but Baltic tribes but I would guess that terrain use and light to medium infantry and tactics would be quite similar.
Although we know that Jaćwięgs herded Tarpan horses - very small forest horses - we don't know about their cavalry.
There are no archaeological findings of Prussians armor and also in written sources only defensive element they used was shield. Main armament consisted of spear, shield, sword or axe, there were throwing clubs, slings and there are know instance of them just throwing rocks.

In XIII century proper enemy for Samogitians /Curonians would be Fratres militiae Christi de Livonia and after disastrous 1236 - Teutonic Order.

Key of Baltic victory in 1236 was terrain unsuitable for heavy cavalry.
But at that late period tribal forces are just too obsolete to fight in other circumstances.
More interesting enemy would be Lithuanians under Mendog in 1240+

ayak333 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 05, 2016, 09:18:35 PM »

These are my forces of the Livonian Order 1240. The Livonian order was a semi autonomous branch of the Teutonic Order. They were largely comprised of former Livonian Sword Brothers. After their loss to Alexander Nevsky at the famous battle of Lake Peipus 1242, the Livonian branch of the Teutonic Order lost their semi autonomy and were under the full control of the Teutonic Order.