1897 - Pathan Uprising - update 19-05-2016

[Harry Faversham]

I'm exactly the same. I decided to use models I liked rather than worry about what rifle they have.  

That's just the way my thinking's going as I build my units for 'The Men Who Would Be Kings' I'm going to use Artizan figures for Harry Feversham's Royal North Surrey Regiment, because they've got that patch on their 'ats, that everyone says should be carved off! The fact that they're all toting Martini-Henrys instead of Lee-Metfords doesn't worry me one bit... them Zulu rifles look nicer than bolt actions anyway!

[Saucy Jack]

That's just the way my thinking's going as I build my units for 'The Men Who Would Be Kings' I'm going to use Artizan figures for Harry Feversham's Royal North Surrey Regiment, because they've got that patch on their 'ats, that everyone says should be carved off! The fact that they're all toting Martini-Henrys instead of Lee-Metfords doesn't worry me one bit... them Zulu rifles look nicer than bolt actions anyway!

Very much agree with you - half of the experience for me when playing wargames is that I like the miniatures that I use. It is the reason that Frostgrave despite the fun gameplay does not grab me - it is too stereotype fantasy.

[Codsticker]

I have been to-ing and fro-ing about getting into this period. I have some Artizan Designs Andalusians which were very nice to paint so I am tempted to get some of their Afghans. This thread might be the tipping point....

[MaleGriffin]

Come to the dark side!  
VSF troops can be armed anyway you like!

Seriously, I have to agree. I use the troops that I like to play with and don't worry whether they have helmet flashes,  wrong uniform or even weapon. At typical viewing range during a game, you can't make out those details anyway and only the most hardcore historians would know the difference even if they could make out the details.

[thequestingvole]

Do they have a pith helmet and a rifle?

That'll do for me. Life is far too short to worry about that sort of thing.  Far better to get the troops on the table and play, then deprive yourself of games because they aren't just right.

[Atheling]

Do they have a pith helmet and a rifle?

That'll do for me. Life is far too short to worry about that sort of thing.  Far better to get the troops on the table and play, then deprive yourself of games because they aren't just right.

Please don't take the following as a critique, it is not mean't so; I asked the question, Do We Owe it to the Men Who Fought to get it Right? on the following link and I thought you chaps may be interested in reading some of the comments:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=87175.0

I'd be interested in what anyone has to add to the question on the above thread

Darrell.

[Saucy Jack]

I am trying to find out the ranges of the weapons that will be used in the setting:

Lee Metford
Martini-Henry
Jezail

If the Lee Metford's range is 24" what would the ranges of the other two be?

Any suggestions?

[Saucy Jack]

Got around to taking some pictures of my Guides unit - quite like the look of them especially the officer.

http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/02/colonials-guides.html

[nils]

nice figures and terain
what did you change ore use from dragon/lion rampant?
i like the rules too and playd zuluwar- brits -light infantry(abel too form shild/bayonetwall and the zulu as belicose foot

[Saucy Jack]

nice figures and terain
what did you change ore use from dragon/lion rampant?
i like the rules too and playd zuluwar- brits -light infantry(abel too form shild/bayonetwall and the zulu as belicose foot

Well they are not quite finished yet... But getting there.

I have looked at the information that some of the playtesters have written about and what the author has revealed.

[Mad Guru]

Re: comparative ranges of Lee-Metford, Martini-Henry, and Jezzails...

If talking about effective range, a Lee-Metford would have twice that (800 yds) of a Martini-Henry (400 yds), and also twice that of a long-barreled flintlock rifle, aka: Jezzail (250-300 -- some would say 400 -- yds).

If talking Maximum Range, then the Martini-Henry would have a slight edge over the Lee-Metford, with both coming in under 2000 yds, while the Jezzail would be done at 500 yds.  IMHO those extreme ranges are not pertinent for gaming purposes, except perhaps for special characters in skirmish games.

Of course, the other big difference is RATE OF FIRE, which for a trained shooter would be about 3 rounds per minute for the Jezzail, 12 round per minute for the single-shot breechloading Martini-Henry, and 20 for the bolt-action magazine-fed Lee-Metford.

Easy to see why towards the end of the 19th Century, widespread British use of the Lee-Metford and increased availability of Martini-Henrys and even some Lee-Metfords and similar bolt-action magazine rifles amongst NWF tribesmen (from a variety of sources), led to a paradigm shift in tactics used by both sides on the frontier, the 1897 Pathan Revolt being an excellent example.

Meanwhile, nice work on the figures!

[Saucy Jack]

Re: comparative ranges of Lee-Metford, Martini-Henry, and Jezzails...

If talking about effective range, a Lee-Metford would have twice that (800 yds) of a Martini-Henry (400 yds), and also twice that of a long-barreled flintlock rifle, aka: Jezzail (250-300 -- some would say 400 -- yds).

If talking Maximum Range, then the Martini-Henry would have a slight edge over the Lee-Metford, with both coming in under 2000 yds, while the Jezzail would be done at 500 yds.  IMHO those extreme ranges are not pertinent for gaming purposes, except perhaps for special characters in skirmish games.

Of course, the other big difference is RATE OF FIRE, which for a trained shooter would be about 3 rounds per minute for the Jezzail, 12 round per minute for the single-shot breechloading Martini-Henry, and 20 for the bolt-action magazine-fed Lee-Metford.

Easy to see why towards the end of the 19th Century, widespread British use of the Lee-Metford and increased availability of Martini-Henrys and even some Lee-Metfords and similar bolt-action magazine rifles amongst NWF tribesmen (from a variety of sources), led to a paradigm shift in tactics used by both sides on the frontier, the 1897 Pathan Revolt being an excellent example.

Meanwhile, nice work on the figures!

Thanks Mad Guru.

I think I will go for the following:

Lee Metford: 30"
Martini-Henry: 24"
Jezail: 18"

[guitarheroandy]

I am trying to find out the ranges of the weapons that will be used in the setting:

Lee Metford
Martini-Henry
Jezail

If the Lee Metford's range is 24" what would the ranges of the other two be?

Any suggestions?

In our TMWWBK games, we approach it thus to simulate the varying factors involved:

Lee Metford  - Modern rifle - 24" range BUT we give the models 'sharpshooter' so they hit on 4+ not 5+. This is to simulate a greater rate of fire rather than them being 'better shots'.
Martini Henry - Modern rifle - 24" with no modifier to shooting stats
Pathan Rifles (which could include long barrelled Jezzail)  - Obsolete Rifle - 18" range. We reduce shooting value to 6+ to represent poor rate of fire (we sometimes give them a better chance to snipe the Brits' leaders to compensate - that's always fun!)
Pathan muzzle loader (e.g. Enfield rifle, old British musket, etc) - Musket - 12" range, with reduced shooting stats as above.

Works really well for us as you'll see if you've followed our batreps or seen us playing the game at our wargame show last November, although I appreciate that the relative ranges aren't 'right'. However, what we have done does not unbalance the game - we still have approx. 50-50 success for Brits and Pathans, which we like.   

[Saucy Jack]

Been working on a lot of terrain for the project and finished it just this evening. Everything is scratch built except the small hills in the "rough terrain" which are from Amera Plastic Moulds.

A lot more information and images on my blog: http://londonbymidnight.blogspot.dk/2016/04/colonial-north-west-frontier-terrain.html

[Happy Wanderer]

Terrain looks brilliant. That's a very nice muted earth tone you have there Saucy...looks right on the money!!

Cheers

Happy Wanderer