LoTR using Lion/Dragon Rampant

[sukhe_bator]

Since I'm currently using my LoTR figures as proxies for my Westerosi until they roll off the production line (yeah like that's ever gonna happen anytime soon ), my mind wandered (as it frequently does ) to the notion of how to 'classify' LoTR troops for a low magic series of encounters. For Orcs read 'Fierce foot' etc...

I know LR is intended for low level combat skirmishes/border clashes, but that would equally apply to many of the scenarios from Tolkein's writings. I wondered how you might for example classify Mumakil under LR (not the gargantuan monstrosities from the film but OS war elephants more like they were described in the books)...?

I ask because I have 11! Seems I could only get away with 2 or 3 tops under LR's proportionate 24pt rules.
The ambush of the Ithilien rangers on the Haradrim for example in the Two Towers would make a good scenario, with some Harad skirmishers, archers, spear and a couple of Mumaks making up the Harad forces?
My current Mumaks have a 5 man crew and driver armed with missiles, so I'm thinking they alone would constitute 2pts like a unit of skirmishers, with the Mumak equating to the equivalent of a mtd sergeants unit @ 4pts? Thus my idea of a Mumak would be a 1 model Mtd MAA unit @ ca. 6pts, with the same or equivalent attack and defence, with possibly an 8" movement AND 12" missile capability. How best to 'combine' the armour since it is 1 model and since no distinction is currently made between mount and rider under LR?

This may already be catered for in Dragon Rampant, but I have not seen a copy yet.

If I wanted to have a big army bash I'd probably be looking at combining several such forces together which is what I'm considering for my GoT forces thus scaling up to somewhere close to 100pts a side.

Ideas anyone?

[Keeper Nilbog]

DRagon Rampant is where you need to go. The 'fantastical' units and upgrades would work nicely - actually the 'Warbeast' units fits perfectly, and if you give it 'missile' ability (whether allowed or not - source materal says so) you could easliy have that as the crew effect. and that would be around 6pts of a lesser/8pts for a greater Warbeast.

You've just inspired me to go look though my old LotR pile (very small) - always fancied an Easterling force.

[sukhe_bator]

Thanks Keeper,
I'll have to be good and stick to non-warbeast scenarios until I can get hold of a copy of DR. Its just I'm using proxies and they look great being used with LR. I naturally find myself looking at my LoTR figures (who are mostly Medieval proxy figures in any event - well the humans at least) in terms of LR units and classes...
I have used Armies of Arcana for larger set piece battles, but since I can only muster limited time and space, have scaled down my gaming accordingly. LR seems to fit the bill in all respects!

[Keeper Nilbog]

Dragon Rampant 'ARE' to all effects and purposes 'Lion Rampant' with a few extra's - only the names have changed to protect the innocent. So if your using LR troop types, they will port over to DR without issue.

Also have 'AoA', which was my go-to fantasy rules until DR came along. Another thing with have found is that DR actually works better with more points on the table, as when the 'fantasical' elements get involved, it's easilypossible to have 10point units. And with Reduced Str/Single Model units (basicially a unit of less figures than Str/Health points), armies can be quite small.

A 24pt force can be done with '4' (yes, count them, 4) figures and be 'legal' (though as i said, it's fantasy, providing it fits with the background your working off)

and now i'm going to have to go and lock myself away - as i'm now wondering about a force based on the Chronicles of Thomas Coventant - have a magazine article on it somewhere.

[Hobgoblin]

As Keeper says, the Greater Warbeast profile from DR is a great fit. You can add Ponderous to make them more stable (as they are at the Pelennor - "towers of defence" around which the Haradrim rally). And you can add Spore/Flame Attack to simulate the archers in the howdah.

We had a discussion about this here. I suggested an "Amok" rule if you want distraught oliphaunts to run wild, as in Ithilien. See what you think.

I also had an idea for a scenario vaguely based on 'Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit'.

[sukhe_bator]

Hobgoblin -  thanks for the great links. I will be poring over them in good time...
Keeper - Urviles charging in triangular formation eh? very nasty!

[Mr.J]

Hi Sukhe

I know you have done many thread showing off various aspects of your LOTR stuff but it'd be great to see more of it! Any chance of a showcase thread?

[sukhe_bator]

Mr J - I'd be very happy to show off my toys and stuff if you guys are interested - what kind of thing had you in mind?

[eilif]

Just one more voice suggesting the acquisition of Dragon Rampant.  I read through my friends copy of LR and then ordered myself DR and I'm glad I did.  Dragon Rampant is just the thing to represent fantasy tropes in ways that make a bit more sense than shoehorning them into Lion Ramapant.

Having enjoyed 2 games of DR with my Fantasy Chaos army, I'm actually looking at DR as impetus to paint up some of the GW LoTR figures that I've been scooping up as bargains come my way.

Oh, and I'd welcome more pics of your figs as well!

[Dilettante Gamer]

Mr J - I'd be very happy to show off my toys and stuff if you guys are interested - what kind of thing had you in mind?

Why not a "Sukhe's Armies of Middle Earth on Parade" with an intitial post outlining your collection and what's important to you followed by a series of posts, each with a seven-picture spread for factions you have. (Or whatever the image limit is per post.)

Or something in that direction to your taste.  Just show us the all the cool models you've collected and terrain you've built in one thread and we'll be appreciative! 

[Giger]

I just played my first game of DR recently using my Black Numenoreans and it was spot on, this will now be my go to fantasy game for battles of that scale (mass battles will still be handled with KOW).

On a side note, please share some more images of your LOTR armies as they look simply incredible.

[Mr.J]

Well your scenery was stunning so that'd be good to show off, but I think a general showcase would be fantastic. Your stuff is very inspirational and it illustrates a brilliant alternative (and much more book friendly imo) to the GW miniatures.

[Hobgoblin]

Well your scenery was stunning so that'd be good to show off, but I think a general showcase would be fantastic. Your stuff is very inspirational and it illustrates a brilliant alternative (and much more book friendly imo) to the GW miniatures.

Yes indeed! Those mumakil are stunning. And it's terrific to see someone using non-film miniatures. As Mr.J indicates, the GW miniatures are often a poor fit with the book descriptions - and Middle Earth is one setting where there is a fair bit of "military history" to draw informed inspiration from.

[sukhe_bator]

Oke doke guys, looks like I'll be spending some of my Easter hols pulling together all my loTR. There's a deal that has yet to see a camera...

[Vermis]

Almost missed that you said LR, not DR! I wondered why the greater warbeast profile didn't excite you. So, yeah, it's a bit moot at this point, but I agree that a copy of DR wouldn't go amiss.

And I love those elephants done up as oliphaunts. Brilliant. Vote for showcase!

As Mr.J indicates, the GW miniatures are often a poor fit with the book descriptions

That's one thing I wouldn't blame GW for. But I feel we've gone over this topic before.