Do I need Lion Rampant?

[Rob_bresnen]

I was just considering Buying Dragon Rampant and/or Lion Rampant. It seems to me that Dragon Rampant contains the rules in Lion Rampant, plus the fantasy rules, so I was wondering would I be better off just buying Dragon Rampant?

I am planning to do 15mm fantasy, but at some point in the future I might want to do 15mm Elizabethan wargaming. 

[Lowtardog]

Hmm, now I bought both, there are difference mainly in the leaders and such. Lots of lists on the forum which cover elizabethan forces do both

[Hobgoblin]

Lion Rampant has more scenarios; Dragon Rampant has more rules. I'd buy LR as well for the extra scenarios (12, I think) and the slightly different leader rules. And for the ideas - each has different suggested army lists, which are good inspiration for a game in which you can do pretty much anything.

Most of the games of DR that I play are essentially LR, with just a few fantasy upgrades sprinkled here or there. But both books are cheap and fun, and both games are great.

[Dr. The Viking]

I was just considering Buying Dragon Rampant and/or Lion Rampant. It seems to me that Dragon Rampant contains the rules in Lion Rampant, plus the fantasy rules, so I was wondering would I be better off just buying Dragon Rampant?

I am planning to do 15mm fantasy, but at some point in the future I might want to do 15mm Elizabethan wargaming. 

I have both sets. I love them even though I must admit I found DR a little disappointing with the amount of same... But hey.

The units are more or less identical. The main difference rules wise is that leaders can duel in LR and not in DR. And that's about it.

I would just stick with to DR.

[sundayhero]

Hi,

I already own Lion rampant, and think about Dragon Rampant too, but I didn't find information on magic, except the statement that it contains "full rules for magic" 

Is there some spells lists, or whatever ?

thanks

[nic-e]

Hi,

I already own Lion rampant, and think about Dragon Rampant too, but I didn't find information on magic, except the statement that it contains "full rules for magic" 

Is there some spells lists, or whatever ?

thanks

Theres a spell list (which can easily be added too.) and a few suggestions on adding magic to your games.

[robh]

...except the statement that it contains "full rules for magic" 
Is there some spells lists, or whatever ?

The magic aspect is very poor and not worth the price of the book if you already have LR

A total of 10 spells plus a rule to create your own that basically states "do what you like but only if your opponent agrees"

I get the impression that DR is just a collection of half formed ideas that could be used in a fantasy game, cobbled on to well proven (and excellent) existing game.

In answer to the OP I would say yes you need Lion Rampant, it is Dragon Rampant that you can do without.

[Elbows]

I'd argue the other way.  Oddly we don't use much in Dragon Rampant from the fantastical standpoint (we agreed they're almost all too expensive).  I think Dragon Rampant is the slightly refined Lion Rampant.

You lose some scenarios, and you lose the "duels" aspect...gain more leadership traits.  The units themselves have a few more options/ideas/special rules.  If you skip the fantastical stuff you can play a nice game of Lion Rampant as you want.

The fantastical traits are way too expensive for what they are, so we discussed running a game where a force consists of say, 24 points for models, and X number of points solely for use with fantastical rules.  So, say, 24/12.  So you'd build a force of 24 points and then you'd have 12 fantastical points to spend at all.  The magic is mediocre, but useful if you want some light-hearted spell-casting.  It is, however, atrociously expensive for what you get.

[dbsubashi]

All you are missing from Lion Rampant are the Warlord rules (challenges and dying in combat) and a bunch of scenarios that don't work well. The Lion Rampant warlord rules do add lots of period historical flavor, but you could survive without them, and may be better off with out them if using multiple based 15's.

[eilif]

Do you need Lion Rampant?
No.

I've read both.  I'd buy whichever one represents the genre you're going to play first.  I read my friend's copy of Lion Rampant (he had both) first but we are doing fantasy gaming and when it came time for me to buy the rules I just bought Dragon Rampant.  I'm satisfied.  I'd probably be satisfied using it for more "historical" genres as well.

Maybe at some point I'll buy LR for the additional scenarios, but I don't think it's at all necessary to own both at first.