STARGUARD! (Finally!)

[raskal]

I like the use of an original color like purple. After all it's a weird planet with amazing new features.

[Captain Gamma]

I must admit I like the vivid colours, it reminds me of the low budget Sci-Fi movies where they simply turned up the camera colour and contrast to make the scene more alien.

This is a fantastic project Grubman, any chance of more photos of your Starguard miniatures? The actual manufacturers website leaves me cold. 

[grubman]

But by the gods, the colours! My eyes are burning! Its like invasion from the planet Barbie!

I'm going to get one of these every 3 or 4 posts, huh 

This is a fantastic project Grubman, any chance of more photos of your Starguard miniatures? The actual manufacturers website leaves me cold. 

Yup...as soon as I get them painted.  I'm doing a lot right now, building the table, trying to read the book, and at the same time finishing up on the final draft of my RPG (Wild West Cinema) being published this spring/summer by Spectrum Games, and life of course .  I se teh minis aside for now because I'm on a roll with the terain (getting close to enough to display a presentable table)...and my wife REALLY wants her kitched counter back (I live in an apartment and don't really have a place to do this stuff).

[grubman]

The Starguard Review

Part Two:  Background and Races

Where to start?  I’ve gotten through the first 32 pages of the Starguard book.  I’ve learned something about myself during this time…I’m spoiled by modern game sensibilities.  The last game I learned was Battlelore, which just may very well be one of the best written rules sets on the market.  Not only is it clearly and concisely written, but the rules easily cover every stipulation that might come up in play and teach you the game very painlessly.  Most “modern” miniature game books contain certain elements.  First a little fluff or fiction about the setting to set the mood (usually detailed more as needed), followed by the core rules to give you an understanding of how the basic game functions, then the detailed rules that build on the core, then the point system/army list, and finally some details about playing the game or some scenarios.  All this with plenty of examples and simple explanations.

Well the Starguard rules stay true to its “oldschool” reputation, and as I read the first 32 pages ran through a spectrum of emotions.  I laughed, I cried, I got bored, I got excited, and then I cried again.

After 32 pages, I’m no closer to knowing anything about how the game plays than I did when I cracked open the book.  The book starts right off by “describing” each of the alien (and human) races in turn.  These follow no standard format, and the information for each race varies from detailed, to vague, to fairly nonexistent.  Sometimes races are described by bits of fiction, sometimes by dry bits of battle history, and sometimes in a more traditional explanatory way.  Every now and then an actual game rule is presented (and this will probably be hard to find when I actually need it)The whole thing is rather patchwork and I would guess that, as the 5 editions of the game were written, new parts were simply added in where the author felt they were appropriate, rather than rewriting the whole game.

It’s very hard to comment on this part of the rules as a whole, because of its randomness.  There are tidbits of humor that made me chuckle (like the description of sand crites, a small bug that crawls up in the Ralnais ass causing itching and diarrhea) and other bits that made me roll my eyes (the Ralnai like to watch old earth Three Stooges tapes (ugh, I hate that type of stuff)), and some bits that made me cringe because of their stupidity (The Dreenoi are pretty cool, being described as an ancient biological weapon, until the author states that they intercepted some religious transitions and now think that the Drenoi are God).

The Ralnai are given several pages describing them physically and mentally, their social habits, sexual reproduction, and emotional states…But, the Orillas  (introduced by a bit of fiction that doesn’t really tell us anything about the race itself) are described so briefly that we only know that they are big strong high-gravity guys who have a bit of a Gorilla resemblance.  We get a lot of detail on what the Dreenoi are (although they do never tell what color they are…so my green paint job should be fine) and why they function like they do, but all we know about the Ameron are that they are “a group of persecuted religious dissidents”, despite a droning dull two page history lesson about their rebellion.  The Nektons are described by a series of stories that tell us more about the Ralnai than the Nektons themselves, and Fabians tell you nothing other than they are humans who have different color and style uniforms than other humans.

Some are described in a more traditional and useful manner, sticking to the things you need and want to know about them.  The Eli, for instance, are covered in ½ a page, but it is a clear concise description that tells me a lot more than the section on Amerons, that are described in 2 full pages.

Each Race is followed by a little chart usually called their T.O. (Tactical Organization? Maybe?) or C.O., or something else.  It is obviously some type of unit organization chart, but it, and how to use it, are never described anywhere, and I’m still left confused as to its function.  I’m guessing it’s a company, with multiple platoons, and then each squad detailed…don’t really know and I wonder if it’ll ever be described for idiots like me.

I could go on, but you get the point.

So at the end of 32 pages I take a look back and think about what I’ve learned: 

The good is that I do have a feel of the tone of the Starguard universe.  I also have a good feel for some of the races, and at least acknowledgment of the others (although here was so much unimportant information presented, it’s a bit hard to remember the actual important information).

The bad is that I still have no idea how to play the game, how these races organize their forces for battles, or if any of the details mentioned (other than the odd rule here and there) actually have any affect on the game or if they are just provided for fun (for example, the Nautiloids “can move with considerable agility over most types of terrain.  They do, however tend to dry out rather rapidly.”  ?? is that going to have a game effect or is it just some random fun fact?).

So I’m enjoying the read for the most part.  I’m still hoping there is a playable game (that I can figure out) coming up in the following pages, but, if not I’ll just have to start on that Song of Blades & Heroes conversion.  One thing is certain to me already; this game NEEDS a 6th edition badly if it wants to be taken seriously by today’s gamers.  Old school and retro are cool and have a certain charm, but that only goes so far when you are dealing with a game that is still in production.  I would feel much better about eh game if I spent $30 on a dead hard to find game on eBay instead of $30 on a living breathing game that’s had 34 years, and 5 editions, to be rewritten and edited.

I’ll answer any questions about this part of the book I can…and if anyone can explain those unit charts and their function to me (like I’m a 5th grader) I’d appreciate it

[grubman]

Yes, I know it’s dull…but it had to be done.  I had to build some foliage and plants, on various sized bases, to decorate the battlefield and make it feel more alive.  Most of this stuff will block line of site and provide light cover when you are actually “inside” the terrain feature.

I wanted an alien look, but I wanted to avoid aquarium plants so it wouldn’t look like, well, an aquarium.  I purchased a bunch of plastic plants from the craft store (they were 30% off, but I still spent about $15, one of the most expensive steps so far…for the least dramatic results).  I assembled them using the same techniques I have for everything else…and wouldn’t you know it…they STILL look kind of like aquarium plants!

Another thing I added to the mix is these Moss Rocks I found while looking at the plastic flowers.  They just looked cool (as-is) to me and are instant terrain that looks alien and fit in with the terrain you normally see on the table top (they are covered in static grass).  They are normally about $10, but on sale for $7.  So, at a little over $20 this was a pretty “expensive” step considering most of the stuff I do costs next to nothing…but it was necessary, and certainly isn’t ugly (IMHO).

[dodge]

That is really taking shape , looks like something from th eoriginal star tek series to me,

excellent stuff grubman even though my eyes ache now 

of course now my daughter wants to come and play on it , you know it being pink and stuff 

dodge

[Pil]

Looks good and the moss rocs break it up nicely. I agree though that the plants still have a watery feel about them.

[Argonor]

Another thing I added to the mix is these Moss Rocks I found while looking at the plastic flowers.  They just looked cool (as-is) to me and are instant terrain that looks alien and fit in with the terrain you normally see on the table top (they are covered in static grass).  They are normally about $10, but on sale for $7.  So, at a little over $20 this was a pretty “expensive” step considering most of the stuff I do costs next to nothing…but it was necessary, and certainly isn’t ugly (IMHO).

I suppose, one could imitate those by covering some nice rounded beach stones in static grass?

[grubman]

Another thing I added to the mix is these Moss Rocks I found while looking at the plastic flowers.  They just looked cool (as-is) to me and are instant terrain that looks alien and fit in with the terrain you normally see on the table top (they are covered in static grass).  They are normally about $10, but on sale for $7.  So, at a little over $20 this was a pretty “expensive” step considering most of the stuff I do costs next to nothing…but it was necessary, and certainly isn’t ugly (IMHO).

I suppose, one could imitate those by covering some nice rounded beach stones in static grass?

They are really light, I'm guessing Paper Mache (or however you spell it) would work best.  Maybe some small ballons, and then pop them right before the paper dries and sort of puch in some areas to make it look like rocks. (just my opinion)

[Argonor]

Could also batter some 'cotton-balls' or styrofoam balls/eggs into the desired shapes.... hmmm....

[grubman]

Could also batter some 'cotton-balls' or styrofoam balls/eggs into the desired shapes.... hmmm....

Of course, if you can find them, $7 isn't bad, considering that Static Grass tendt so be a bit pricy and these have really good coverage...not to mention all the work is done already.  Of course, then you can't claim bragging rights when people say they look cool

[grubman]

Well, I have the day off today (federal holiday and all) so I’m getting a lot done.  First I found another piece of that packing material that I made my first building with at work the other day.  It’s smaller and less dramatic, but, I painted it up the same way and it makes a nice little troop barracks.

Next I build the kind of terrain I like the best…that which I make out free stuff I find in the garbage.  What does some Styrofoam cups, a few water bottle caps (yeah, we mark out water bottle caps so we can reuse them…wait till my wife finds out hers are gone ), some straws, some plastic ties, the top of an empty wine bottle, and a couple nuts and washers have in common?



Answer:  Glue them all together and you have a moisture vaporator and water purifier for your base!



[click] …Yeah, Brack, I’ve been on patrol all day …no, I’m not sleeping, I’m as alert as can be …hell now there are no Dreenoi around …yeah, another fricking bughunt from the commander, what an idiot! ...yeah, see you at the mess…out…[click]

[grubman]

Man…things aren’t looking good for Starguard!  I’m having trouble making heads or tails out of these rules (or appreciating the ones I do understand).  I figured that whatever I didn’t understand wouldn’t be a problem because my friend Steve will certainly understand.  Even in the old days Steve was able to interpret and understand games that made my eyes bleed.

So while I’ve been optimistic about the rules to this game, I’ve been fearful the more I read.  Then tonight I got this (below) email from Steve.  I gave him a call, and we talked about the game for some time.  In the end I said, “rather than rewrite Starguard (which is what he suggested) so we can actually play it, read Mutants & Death Ray Guns and/or Song of Blades & Heroes, and see if you rather use those rules to do a conversion (or just play M&DRG)”.

So I’m not sure if we’ll actually be playing Starguard or not.  But don’t shed a tear for me.  If we play M&DRG I’ll be just as happy.  I have no problem with my investment in Dreenoi miniatures because I love them and love painting miniatures, and I’ll use them for M&DRG and for my Traveller RPG games either way.

As far as all the terrain…I love building terrain, and having a mission made it that much more fun. Trust me, even if we don’t give the actual Starguard rules a try, I’ll use this terrain for M&DRG and for several conventions coming up.  So, it’s not like the time and effort will go to waste or anything….and don’t stop reading this thread, because the table is almost finished, Starguard or not

Steve’s Note:

“Foolishly, I have read the "rules".

Watching a match for two minutes would tell me more than I could ever
learn reading that...that...spotty list of suggestions.

I know that it has fans and forums and whatnot...and I know we could
make anything go,...but sheesh...take a page to explain everything and
you can still prattle on and explain things poorly and people would
have a clear idea instead of half a clue.

The list of things to be ignored to play this game:

1. The Maximum Damage Rule mentioned only on page 34. Apparently it
applies to lasers but we have been spared the actual rule.

2. Movement and facing are in essence not covered. (There is a number
4. on page 49 in the MOVMENT section but this precedes a list of
abbreviations for all actions including combat.)..they are assumed.
Facing is apparently automatic. Notable exception for tracked vehicles
only.

3. Jet packs, Grav-sleds, Jet belts and Grav-paks apparently allow
complete and total maneuverability despite having and
acceleration/deceleration rate (Grav-sleds are mentioned in the
after-thoughts as having poor braking and steering so one would think
turning could be a problem - but not worth mentioning in the
rules....).

4. Terrellians are hard to kill. Only they aren't...it takes one
penetrating hit.

5. Movement apparently has first and second segments. Melee happens
between them. Melee also happens anytime. (See Hand To Hand)

6. Covering fire takes place halfway through the movement phase or at
the most advantageous point.

7. Troops apparently lie prone without any benefit.

8. There are essentially no line of sight rules except firing blind or
with a sensor - unless it's -15%(small window) or -50% (view slit). (I
thought blind fire was -40%)

9. Multi-barrel guns on autofire get a d6 roll for each barrel for
number of hits. (I don't recall seeing any.)

10. All autofire weapons get +10% to hit except lasers which have that
factored in?

11. Actual inches moved need to be tracked for combat reasons. Energy
needs to be tracked for some things.

12. Each unit seems to get two actions each turn one for movement and
one for combat...or two for combat but not melee...or one for movement
and something free or one for movement something free and melee??
Or you can just reload. A weapon that takes one turn to reload takes 2
actions while one that takes two turns to reload can reload in three
actions (but wait a minute? doesn't that mean they can fire again in
the second turn?....)


We can totally play this game.
We just need to write it first.

Either everyone has all these extra rules - and they make more sense -
or I just don't have all the right assumptions.

A lot of this is very minor - an index card for a weapon or a  vehicle
with a couple of actual rules would fix almost everything.

Explosives are [edited by Dave ]. Damage value systems in games with one-hit
rules are also kind of [edited again].

We will play this game.

It just needs fixing.”

[Torben]

It saddens me to see that the granddaddy of sci-fi gaming seems to be beyond comprehension. Was looking forward to see if there was going to be any merit in nostalgia gaming. Ah well, at least the figures (Dreenoi in particular) are looking cool

However, I will kepe watching this thread for more updates on your fantastic battlefield. Does it have a name yet?

[bandit86]

I love the use of packing material for the house,  I used that stuff for my Quar home and now once I used it I can’t find any more    Now I open a package with the hopes of finding an extra treasure and poof just old Styrofoam. But I keep looking.  Great job on your project

http://bandit86.blogspot.com/2008/07/wip-my-1st-quar-house-trash-to-treasure.html