What is the appeal of Frostgrave

[Ingmar]

@WitchfinderGeneral

It's about magic users, going into a magic city, fighting magic duels against magic opponents over magic loot, but otherwise I think you'll be fine.    

But seriously, yes the game deals with magic a lot. Personally, I don't recognize too much of the "can't see so don't like part" though. Most magic boils down to either a direct (ranged) attack, a physical remain in play effect like a wall or bit of fog, an additional warband member or an in or decrease in a certain stat. Most of it can be seen on the table as such. So a spell like Wall summons a wall with set dimensions in the game, that can be represented by anything you like. For a good example of what I mean, check out the "Show me your construct" topic. You can pretty much choose what you like.
If you are unsure about the game, just take a look at some of the tabletop CoOp (or Guerilla Miniature Games) batreps on Youtube. It paints a decent picture of regular games..

[Elbows]

Yeah, if you don't like magic...this would be a hugely bad move. 

[mcfonz]

I'll sort of say what I have been saying more or less all along.

1) It takes a few games of Frostgrave to sink your teeth into it and cleanse the pallet from games you may have played in the past.
2) You will mostly likely need to add some house rules to make it work for some aspects.
3) DO NOT GO IN THINKING IT IS SOMETHING ELSE - eg Mordheim.

The last one I cannot emphasise enough. People go on about what games it's like and then often list games it is nothing like. The setting is like a number of games but, crucially for me, the rules are not. If anything, the rules are more like Dungeons and Dragons than anything else.

Some people don't like the large swing involved in using d20's - especially when used to using the likes of d6 where the amount of granulation is minuscule. Now, that doesn't make you wrong or silly etc, it just means you like games where the focus is purely upon decision making as the dice results are altogether more predictable and reliable.

However, personally, I love the d20 system. It's not just about working out that 75% of your shots will hit and 50% of those will result in failed armour saves. When you step out into the open to take a shot with a bow, the risk is far greater - you truly leave your fate in the hands of the gods.

I also like that a thug has the chance, although with a heavy handicap, to hit a knight in just the right spot and splat him. Some games such as those that use the core GW system, often leave some troops with little chance of dealing damage to hard targets.

In reality, even a unit of rabble can sometimes get the upper hand and destroy a unit of elite troops. Frostgrave delivers on that front whilst also ensuring that the better characters are more reliable, but their chance of failure is just as deadly.

It isn't for everyone, and that's not a problem. There are so many games out there to choose from.

@witchfinderGeneral . . . . witch? Magic? Eh?

[Artemis Black]

I don't like the miniatures, just because they are plastic and I don't like that look. That's OK, I understand that I don't need the"official" Minis to play the game.
But I absolutely hate any kind of magic or other things I can't see on the table but could have a major influence on the game (like artillery or air strikes

... and arrows and bullets and cannonballs and almost everything other than tiny static representations of something

I think you might be looking for checkers, even chess has a magic spell which turns a pawn into a queen.

[Plus Four]

This game basically brought me & my friends back to gaming after GW ruined 40K & WHFB!

It was the great videos produced by Ash @ Guerilla Miniature Games & Owen @ Gaming with the Cooler that hooked me and the rest is history as they say.

We love the simplicity of rules and the complexity of the strategy. We love the role playing style of the game and how our models are starting to build a life of their own and how each battle becomes another part of the story!

I'm now inspired and have been modelling, building terrain and painting like a daemon!

As a group we've introduced a few minor house rules to nerf the "killer" wizard issue but that's part of the appeal of the rule set - you can make it your own and it doesn't matter that my version of the game is slightly different to yours!

[Philhelm]

But I absolutely hate any kind of magic or other things I can't see on the table but could have a major influence on the game (like artillery or air strikes). Can this game be enjoyed without magic or is magic such a crucial element that I should better skip the game completely?

Admittedly, I think that's an unusual expectation of a fantasy-based tabletop game, but most of the spells aren't directly offensive in nature.  You can cast fireballs, and such, which act like souped-up arrows, but the majority of the spells are based around healing, buffing, movement, item creation, creature creation, etc.

However, it would be easy to play the game without any magic.  Instead of a Wizard and Apprentice, you could, say, have a free Captain and then use the 500 gold for the Captain's equipment and henchmen.  You could even perhaps allow the henchmen to level up and take the "skills" that the Captain's have access to.  You might also want to change some of the random item charts to exclude mage-only equipment.  It would take the meat out of the game, in my opinion, but it is easily viable.

[Digitarii]

Admittedly, I think that's an unusual expectation of a fantasy-based tabletop game, but most of the spells aren't directly offensive in nature.  You can cast fireballs, and such, which act like souped-up arrows, but the majority of the spells are based around healing, buffing, movement, item creation, creature creation, etc.

However, it would be easy to play the game without any magic.  Instead of a Wizard and Apprentice, you could, say, have a free Captain and then use the 500 gold for the Captain's equipment and henchmen.  You could even perhaps allow the henchmen to level up and take the "skills" that the Captain's have access to.  You might also want to change some of the random item charts to exclude mage-only equipment.  It would take the meat out of the game, in my opinion, but it is easily viable.

Sounds kind of "meh" to me. The Magic is half of the fun for me.

[Philhelm]

Sounds kind of "meh" to me. The Magic is half of the fun for me.

I agree.  The combat itself is simple.  It's the spells that are the meat of the game.

[WitchfinderGeneral]

It's about magic users, going into a magic city, fighting magic duels against magic opponents over magic loot, but otherwise I think you'll be fine.    

Alright, then I at least understood what this game is about. 
I'll check that youtube battle reps!

3) DO NOT GO IN THINKING IT IS SOMETHING ELSE - eg Mordheim.

The last one I cannot emphasise enough.

Thanks for pointing that out! Frostgrave seems to be THE "warband based" fantasy wargame currently around. And it looks to me like a lot of people have invested in this game, which were searching for a replacement (or improved version) of Mordheim. Obviously some of them become disappointed by now.

I like the occasional game of "Wiz-war", but in wargaming all those "ace up your sleeve" stuff drives me crazy. Maybe in Frostgrave the magic is better balanced in some way. I actually like the finer graduation of D20 really much. So I'll give the game try when I get the chance.

@witchfinderGeneral . . . . witch? Magic? Eh?

It's just about my affection for red haired girls.

[mcfonz]

Yes, but red haired girls are magic . . . . in my experience . . . . .

In some ways that are better whispered than spoken, and then particularly good at 'firey' and in one instance I experienced, pretty good at shredding your brain into so many pieces it becomes blemonge - all with magic, I can assure you, no egg whisks were used . . . . just the power of spells! 

[zellak]

I like rolling on random treasure tables at the end of the game.

Maybe its just me, but when the game finishes.....you get goodies.         


That's fun. 

[Wyrmalla]

Originally I played only one off games with the same starting gold. We played the game like any other skirmish, and wound up with half the models dead.

With one off games, the winner is based around treasure and who lost the least models. In a campaign though, these only matter in the long run, and you can win a campaign without being the richest or most experienced player.

You need to look at the game from a campaign perspective, as things only start to come into play after a few scenarios. I doubt just giving players more gold, random treasures and levelled up wizards for one off games would have the same effect – you need to feel attached and be part of the progression.

It’s a point I’ve made to the influx of players at my club who bought the game initially, then dropped it soon after. I’ll attempt to wrangle in one or two for a campaign after my current one’s over (I’m not good with tournament style ones, rather I play them against just one opponent most of the time).

The progression is the key thing though. The game could do with a higher tier of spells and more soldiers for those longer campaigns though. If you’ve played an RPG you’ll get what the buzz of finding loot and upgrading your party is.

…Even if the party’s expendable. The joke in my current campaign is that I have a puppy farm behind my inn for all the dead warhounds, and the other player’s going to the local wildlife sanctuary to replace her bears (“oh I swear I’ll give it a good home!”, fine, we don’t have the money to feed it anyway).

Following that note, advancement is a good opportunity to replace models. I started out with one set of models, but replaced them one by one as I upgraded them. I’m doing the same with my Wizard as they level. Its an excuse to sculpt more, and get rid of nattier models too.

Playing the game in a setting taken from a known IP like the Elder Scrolls helps too, but the base game has an interesting setting as well which can be built upon quite easily.

[Drachenklinge]

In my experience so far, no single tabletop game is balanced. Sure, some are more, some less. And sooner or later some co-players get into it more deeply than you and then it really starts to get unbalanced.
If a game is not for you, don't thunk about, why it is not, just don't play. And for sure do not play, because everyone else does.

I.often read about the mishaps and disadvantages of the d20 ... yeah, so? I like the mechanics in Frostgrave, but I would not like it everywhere.  Luckily ... I do not have to.

For instance ... I also like the exploding dice mechanism in Dystopian Wars. But that does not mean I'd like to see it everywhere.

To sum it up ... Frostgrave does combine a few things I now like exactly that way, but would not like to see everywhere. Therefore I like to play Ronin, Frostgrave, DBA, Infinity, DystopianWars, etc. Each unique in its own right.

I like vanilla pudding, but not if there is ONLY that. I like steak as well. But I do not want it combined. I eat both. Same with tabletops. 

[Elbows]

In my experience so far, no single tabletop game is balanced. Sure, some are more, some less. And sooner or later some co-players get into it more deeply than you and then it really starts to get unbalanced.
If a game is not for you, don't thunk about, why it is not, just don't play. And for sure do not play, because everyone else does.

I.often read about the mishaps and disadvantages of the d20 ... yeah, so? I like the mechanics in Frostgrave, but I would not like it everywhere.  Luckily ... I do not have to.

For instance ... I also like the exploding dice mechanism in Dystopian Wars. But that does not mean I'd like to see it everywhere.

To sum it up ... Frostgrave does combine a few things I now like exactly that way, but would not like to see everywhere. Therefore I like to play Ronin, Frostgrave, DBA, Infinity, DystopianWars, etc. Each unique in its own right.

I like vanilla pudding, but not if there is ONLY that. I like steak as well. But I do not want it combined. I eat both. Same with tabletops. 

Nonsense.  Vanilla Pudding Steak is where it's at!

[LeadAsbestos]

Well, 2 games in, and I'm hooked! I wasnt sure, the setting did nothing for me, wizards after treasure, blah, blah...

We had a blast! Tactical enough to be interesting, simple enough to enjoy several beers and not screw up too badly. Switched to a jungle setting, made some interesting warbands, and we're all good to keep going!

So, I was wrong...