Dungeon Crawl Rules

[LeadAsbestos]

I'm hoping Otherworld, maybe w a GM? Great system, either way!

[Erny]

Dungeons and Dragons?

[sundayhero]

Coming a bit late to this thread, but I've played Dungeonslayers it's a damn fine game. Completely free, too.

You're talking about the RPG game ?

http://www.dungeonslayers.com/


Is it suitable for miniature game ?

thanks

[Hobgoblin]

Dungeons and Dragons?

I think this might be the right answer. I increasingly think that the search for the perfect dungeon-crawl rules is a bit of an wild-goose chase.

Here's why. It seems to me that the key aspect of dungeon-crawling is exploration. You can get that to an extent with board or miniatures games, but not nearly to the same extent as when you have a good RPG dungeon scenario, with plausible motives for the denizens, interaction between different groups of them, history, curiosities and - above all - description.

Also, miniatures games tend to limit the scale of things. It's pretty much impossible to do the Bridge of Khazad-dum (going on the vastness described in the book) with miniatures, unless you're being quite impressionistic with terrain.

Given that, I wonder if a miniatures-based RPG - like Tales of Blades of Heroes or indeed D&D - is the best of both worlds?

All that said, though, I think the best model for a dungeon-crawling boardgame might be Space Hulk. "We cannot get out ... they are coming!".

[robh]

Another vote here for "Swords and Wizardry" can be a skirmish game with some rpg elements or an rpg with some skirmish elements depending on the scenario and your preferences. I run it as a skirmish game with exploration and character advancement.

https://www.froggodgames.com/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook

One of the varied "0ed" D&D clones (others like OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord and Lamentations of the Flame Princess) gives you the core of D&D adventures before the bloat of hundreds of classes and thousands of abilities/skills and spells ruined it. Is compatible with the hundreds of D&D scenario modules that are around so you can play classic campaigns like Slavelords or Elemental Evil as narrative skirmish games with a little preparation.

[metalface13]

What about Advanced Heroquest, Warhammer Quest or even the new Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower?

[psyberwyche]

What about Advanced Heroquest, Warhammer Quest or even the new Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower?

Seconded. The original Warhammer Quest, whilst flawed in places, does everything discussed here, and is essentially 'Fantasy Space Hulk' but with some RPG-lite elements.

[Michi]

What about Advanced Heroquest, Warhammer Quest or even the new Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower?

Thirded.
I played Advanced Heroquest enriched with some Old World lore from the Warhammer fantasy role play book and some house rules as an RPG for years.

[The Bibliophile]

I've worked for a few months now on a home-brew set of dungeon delving rules that build upon Advanced Song of Blades and Heroes as a foundation. I've really tried to accomplish a lot of the same things you are seeking by emphasizing exploration and narrative elements as well as skirmish fighting. You can get a sense of the game and the mechanics I've worked up at the link:

http://imgur.com/a/JiomU

[Momotaro]

The core question is, what kind of dungeon crawl do you want?

An exploration, where dungeon inhabitants can be friendly rather than hostile, and the aim is to loot, or discover the secrets of the dungeon, or complete a mission, or simply escape.

A resource-management sim, where spells, health levels, equipment and even light are scarce, and have to be hoarded to use at the right time if you're to have any chance of success.

A tactical battle, where the enemy is prepared with traps and troops and will respond intelligently to an incursion.  Success is about scouting, infiltration, finding weak spots, choosing your battles wisely.

"Fantasy fucking Vietnam" where you take a bunch of retainers into a tunnel complex and hack your way through a bunch of unconnected encounters.  A few lucky survivors will stagger out... to face the next challenge.

It's worth remembering that D&D has encouraged all of these styles of play at different times through its history.

A good modern RPG that tackles the genre is Torchbearer.  It has a lot of moving parts and mechanisms, but they all work together.  The game's central conceit is that every 4 turns in the dungeon, your character loses damage.  Physical damage is only one type - you can become hungry or thirsty, angry or afraid as well as hurt.  As you take more damage, the party's ability to work together to overcome problems becomes strained, and eventually characters start to die.  Think of the film "The Descent" about the cavers lost in a tunnel system - they're deep in doo-doo even before they meet the local cannibal troglodytes.

Of course you can take food and water and other resources into the dungeon to combat this, but the raid is always a race against deteriorating condition... and that's before you meet what's down there.

Probably not a great wargame, as it abstracts combat to the same level as other mechanisms in the game - you apply tactics and bonuses as a team, and a character can die as a random result of the combat outcome.  Better as an RPG or tactical boardgame rather than a straight wargame, perhaps.

Actually, the single-sided or player vs player nature of the dungeon crawl lends itself to boardgames nicely, and there have been some crackers over the years.  Space Hulk, Level 7 Omega Protocol, Mice and Mystics (which at least attempts to have some non-combat challenges), Descent, Imperial Assault.

What makes a dungeon crawl work for you?

[ShortscaleDave]

Reading this reminded me I meant to take a look at Trapdoor, but it's no longer available on the wargames vault site.  Sorry, don't want to derail the thread but as it has been recomended and if anyone knows where it is available I'd be greatful to know! 

[The Bibliophile]

ShortscaleDave: It's no longer available at the moment, but I actually spoke with the game's creator in the past few weeks, and he is currently refining and beta-testing a revised version of the rules that sound promising.

Momotaro: You've expertly outlined the whole spectrum of styles that can inform a dungeon crawling game. In my game I wanted to create an experience that felt thematically and narratively cohesive, not a simple romp to beat up monsters, but rather a very concrete setting where events in one part of the game might have repercussions later in terms of setting/story/encounters. But it was also important to me to create a gaming experience in which no player was relegated to the game master role; I wanted everybody at the table to have their own group of explorers. To this end, I've created some mechanics that involve players running their opponent's encounters.

The exploration side of the game involves a deck of "Room Feature" cards (see some examples at the link I shared) that try evoke a real space and invite the players to interact with and explore the room with a variety of possible room-specific outcomes. I've also included mechanics that allow rooms and corridors to be searched to reveal secret doors/traps/useful items, traps to be encountered, noise (from battles, etc.) to attract wandering encounters or alert foes in adjacent areas, etc. I've also created mechanics for introducing major plot points that again reveal the story in stages and provide significant obstacles for the characters to overcome (closing a portal in x number of turns, using an object found in an earlier encounter, etc.). To further enhance the narrative, I created mechanics for rumors that players can be privy to and ulterior motives for each player that can provide extra victory points (all kept secret from your opponents).

[NurgleHH]

Maybe Descent? Rules are free at the Website from Fantasyflight Games. Boardgame rules, but usable for Tabletop, I think

[Major Tom]

Lots of good suggestions already but I'll add this one to the pot, very simple and quick with options to play solo, or as a group with/without a gm.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancient-Odysseys-Treasure-Awaits-Pocket/dp/0977067378#reviewBucketHeader

[Harry von Fleischmann]

I'd like to mention "Dungeon Scum" from Nordic Weasel games; it's a dungeon version of the Starport Scum engine.

I worked on it so of course I like it...