Moongrunt Discussion

[SBMiniaturesGuy]

Like...these ships!


http://www.shapeways.com/shops/hobbyfuzion?section=Torch+War&s=0


http://www.shapeways.com/shops/hobbyfuzion?section=Space%3A+1969&s=0

[Dezmond]

There was a video game called Shattered Horizon about EVA combat:-



Also:-

[Teardrop World]

It seems rules in space should take gravity in account: a figure taking a high impact shot should flee away a few inch or feet, until a scenery element stop it 

Cheers

[Dezmond]

It occurs that the US army Universal Camouflage Pattern might actually be effective camouflage on the moon





Which I think is clear evidence the pattern was developed as part of the secret war the US has been fighting since the 60s against the Soviets and Chinese (and survivors of the Nazi Moonbase) for control of the alien biometals and other relics of the ancient Chthonians, as described in the Battlefront videogame of 1998 (recently rereleased in modernised form as Battlezone Redux))

[dijit]

There's also Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt novel 'Cyclops' which has a secret US base on the moon, that the Russians are trying to take before it's presence is made public to the world and therefore claim all the scientific goodies that have been developed there. (Unfortunately Dirk Pitt doesn't get on the moon - but it's good modern pulp action all the same)

[Tas]

Have only just found out that Moongrunt is a thing

...and its a thing I LIKE!

Looks like I finally be able to play all the cool SF Battles in these books, which I enjoyed despite their shortcomings in some areas:











So I guess I'll be dropping in on the GZG site shortly :-)

Now WHAT rules are we all thinking of?

[Dezmond]

I am very excited by this game in alpha development



A realistic space warfare simulator. While a computer game I figure it would be of interest to many on this thread.

Nice!

The big ass radiators needed to dump the waste heat generated by high powered space drives (and weapons) offer much potential to make cool looking space ships





--

The fastest form of locomotion on the moon is gonna be some sort of hopping/skipping motion:-







So the US Marines may well adopt nicknames for themselves like Jackrabbits or March Hares or somesuch

But the Chinese Luna troops call themselves Jiangsi - Hopping Vampires





Jiangsi literally means Stiff Corpse, which seems like a very appropriate name for people about to go in to battle in the vacuum of space wearing a cumbersome pressure suit

[Dezmond]

Now WHAT rules are we all thinking of?

Tomorrows War, I think, if only to try and force myself to figure out how to play it.

The special rules for fighting on the moon would appear to be Low Gravity and Vacuum.

Low Gravity means units must pass a Troop Quality test (roll 4+ on a Troop Quality Dice I think) every time they want to make a Rapid Move. Failure means they can only make a tactical move.

Fighting in Vacuum means casualties must make a Troop Quality roll prior to the First Aid roll. Failure means the casualty dies as a result of the hostile enviroment.

[Dezmond]

Some possible basic forces for Tomorrow's War using the minis available from GZG:-

For simlicity the guys with laser rifles with attached grenade launchers just count as basic riflemen, and all troops marked as TL 2 to leave room for any aliens who show up to be TL3.

USMCEPEFL (United States Marine Corps Extra-Planetary Expeditionary Force Luna)

Initiative Level - D8
Confidence Level - High
Supply Quality Level - Normal
Overall Tech Level - 2
On Grid? - No
Body Armour - M31 Protected Pressure Suits (2D)
Troop Quality/Morale - D8/D10

USMC EVA Squad

1 * Squad Leader w/ M225 EVICW (Exta Vehicular Individual Combat Weapon)

Fireteam Alpha
1 * Fireteam Leader w/ M225 EVICW
1 * Gunner w/ M237 Rapid-Pulse Support Laser Weapon (TL2 lt. AP1)
1 * Gunner w/ M222 Multi Role Portable Rocket Launcher (TL2 Med. AP2/AT2(M))
1 * Rifleman w/ M225 EVICW

Fireteam Bravo
1 * Fireteam Leader w/ M225 EVICW
1 * Gunner w/ M237 Rapid-Pulse Support Laser Weapon (TL2 lt. AP1)
1 * Gunner w/ M222 Multi Role Portable Rocket Launcher (TL2 Med. AP2/AT2(M))
1 * Rifleman w/ M225 EVICW

Fireteam Charlie
1 * Fireteam Leader w/ M225 EVICW
1 * Gunner w/ M237 Rapid-Pulse Support Laser Weapon (TL2 lt. AP1)
1 * Gunner w/ M222 Multi Role Portable Rocket Launcher (TL2 Med. AP2/AT2(M))
1 * Rifleman w/ M225 EVICW

--

PLASF (People's Liberation Army Space Force) Lunar Troops

Initiative Level - D8
Confidence Level - High
Supply Quality Level - Normal
Overall Tech Level - 2
On Grid? - No
Body Armour - Type 28 Armoured Pressure Suits (2D)
Troop Quality/Morale - D8/D10

PLASF Lunar Marine Rifle Squad

Fireteam 1
1 * Squad Leader w/ ZH25 Laser Rifle/Low Pressure Grenade Launcher
1* Fire Team Leader w/ ZH25
1 * Gunner w/ ZH32 Heavy Pulse Laser (TL2 lt. AP1)
1 * Gunner w/ ZH40 Multi Role Rocket Launcher (TL2 Med. AP2/AT2(M))
1* Rifleman w/ ZH25

Fireteam 2
1* Fire Team Leader w/ ZH25
1 * Gunner w/ ZH32 Heavy Pulse Laser (TL2 lt. AP1)
1 * Gunner w/ ZH40 Multi Role Rocket Launcher (TL2 Med. AP2/AT2(M))
1* Rifleman w/ ZH25

Fireteam 3
1* Fire Team Leader w/ ZH25
1 * Gunner w/ ZH32 Heavy Pulse Laser (TL2 lt. AP1)
1 * Gunner w/ ZH40 Multi Role Rocket Launcher (TL2 Med. AP2/AT2(M))
1* Rifleman w/ ZH25

[Tas]

TW is a great way ahead.  SG2 would work well too (still love those rules) but with some more tweaking

Personally, I see the cratered Moon landscape as primarily a light infantry battlefield.  Vehicles will be most frequently used as battlefield taxis, letting the infantry make their way on foot the last bit of distance.  That said, GZG's new moon buggies are way too cool not to buy :-)

Some possible basic forces for Tomorrow's War using the minis available from GZG:-

Thats sort of light infantry mix was exactly what I was thinking too Dezmond.
I would probably play around with one force to make them a bit different to one another (eg having one PLASF fire team a HW focus by redistributing the rockets, or something like that).

[Dezmond]

I vaguely understand a modern PLA non-mechanised squad is twelve guys with two machine guns and two RPGs. So an alternative Chinese squad might look like:-

PLASF Lunar Rifle Squad

1 * Squad Leader w/ ZH25
1 * Assistant Squad Leader w/ ZH25

Fireteam A
1 * Gunner w/ ZH32 Heavy Pulse Laser (TL2 lt. AP1)
1 * Gunner w/ ZH40 Multi Role Rocket Launcher (TL2 Med. AP2/AT2(M))
3* Rifleman w/ ZH25

Fireteam B
1 * Gunner w/ ZH32 Heavy Pulse Laser (TL2 lt. AP1)
1 * Gunner w/ ZH40 Multi Role Rocket Launcher (TL2 Med. AP2/AT2(M))
3 * Rifleman w/ ZH25

So effectively two elements of six men each with a SAW, RPG and four riflemen

As the conflict escalates and heavy equipment starts arriving from earth, I guess unit sizes will depend on how many guys in pressure suits it seems reasonable to fit in to the back of each of these things:-

[Jagannath]

As the conflict escalates and heavy equipment starts arriving from earth, I guess unit sizes will depend on how many guys in pressure suits it seems reasonable to fit in to the back of each of these things:-

That's how I like to consider lots of the low intensity sci-fi conflicts I like to game - similar to the 'stick' concept from the Rhodesian bush wars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireforce#Four-man_stick

A structure dictated by low capacity transport - I'm no military enthusiast by a long way though, so I take what little I know and run with it! I imagine in a Vac situation that the transports would be able to carry less people (more like mobile life support homes than battle taxis).

[Hobby Services]

Big part of the usefulness of any lunar vehicle will be providing life support for extended periods, as well as a place where people could unsuit briefly to make repairs, treat minor injuries, etc.  Those rovers might very well not actually be designed to fit more than a couple of people in a shirtsleeve environment, with most of the carrying capacity used for spare parts, medical supplies, and lots and lots of life support tankage (not just air, food and water as well).  A wheeled vehicle might not be much faster than a suited trooper over most terrain, especially if there are jump packs involved, and you could design them and the suits so that recharging life support could be done from the outside, or it could be done in rotation, with a couple of troopers at a time going inside to do suit checks and fill their tanks while the rest stay on watch.   

[Tas]

Thats how I see it too - the vehicles are (mostly) about enhance infantry mobility and increasing their endurance.  A weapon system provides firepower in extremis but mostly they are kept way out of the way of the front line fight.  Long range laser satellites are a major enemy, as are fortified outposts mounting heavy weapons.  On the other hand, infantry can approach with relative stealth and are harder to hit en mass.

So perhaps that makes the moon similar the WW1 Western Front - areas of fortified lines (around bases and facilities) with a large 'no man's land' in between which is hard to cross in anything bigger than a vac suit.

[Hobby Services]

Of course, there is the question of why you'd use combat infantry instead of man-sized (or smaller, possibly much smaller) remote drones or independent robots.  They could easily be built with frames that give all the stealth and terrain-handling advantages without the fragile suits and the massive life support requirements.