[Goalsystem] Super Mission Force

[kimryoung]

Cait,

Scott's version of "I Have a Plan" is less powerful then my idea, but it really works as it only allows a single teammate to follow your turn. I think it will be fine and makes it a valuable reason for taking a Mastermind. Remember, there is no guarantee it even works and still needs a Re-charge.

As for Burrowing, don't think in terms of strength or weakness, but in terms of character theme for your models. I gave up 40K for that thought process and would rather build a Super Group with a theme I like and corresponding powers and abilities to fit their background instead of optimal statistical advantages. Scott could never have a any hope of doing that, and it's pretty clear that is not the bottom line of his concept.

Scott, I still like the idea of Sonic Attack. There needs to be more character types to have access to Psyche Attack powers/weapons in some form to make Psyche a meaningful attribute.

Really appreciate you listing to your future customer base at this stage. Your concept for SMF is a fresh breath.

Have you thought of just calling it "Super Force" or something similar? The term "Mission" in the title doesn't have a comic book ring to it. It's a minor point from my take so don't take any offense, I'm still on board.

Kim

[fourcolorfigs]

Thanks Kim and Cait!

I appreciate the great feedback. Sonic Blasts is now in the doc, and I agree having another Psyche based attack is a good thing.

[MHoxie]

Should the Dispel power from SuperSystem be added? Would dispelling an archetype's major power be too strong?
Maybe Dispel would only work on minor powers, or give a +1 or 2 die bonus to the defender if the Dispel is used
against a major power.

[fourcolorfigs]

No on Dispel. I think we're good without it. 

[fourcolorfigs]

Some musings on Reflection and Scrapper's Counterattack ability.

As it stands, Counterattack looks like this:

Counterattack: If your melee defense roll beats your attacker’s check, it could count as an attack on him! You can choose to activate this ability after seeing the results of a combat exchange. If you do activate it, your attacker suffers 2 Body damage. For example, if Wildman’s defense check exceeds Saber-Skull’s attack check by any amount, and Wildman invokes Counterattack, Saber-Skull suffers 2 Body damage! Armor reduces the damage from this effect, but Force-Field has no effect on it. Recharge 3+


And Reflection looks like this:

Reflection (minor)
You can sometimes turn Body-damaging attacks back on your attacker! Anytime you successfully defend against a Body-damaging attack you can choose to make a Chance roll. On a 2+, your attacker suffers 2 Body damage. Armor reduces the damage from this effect, but Force-Field has no effect on it.


I am thinking I want to adjust Counterattack to simply be a Melee-only version of Reflection:


Counterattack: You possess the Reflection minor power limited to melee attacks.


The benefit to this is that player's need to only know one rule. It also eliminates the Recharge check--one less thing to track. The Scrapper would lose his ability to pick exactly when to employ his Counterattack for more chances to use it in game. He'll still need to avoid the initial attack, then make the 2+ Chance roll to activate the 2 Damage on his attacker. Remember, it's about a 47% chance to score a 2+ on 2D.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

[Erethor]

I like the idea of Counterattack giving you Reflection, as they are already very similar. This would keep it simpler.

I had a question about Reflection though - does it work against Damage Field?

Basically, if a foe has damage field, and hits you in melee, they then roll for Damage Field. If they miss that roll, do you then also get to roll Reflection/Counterattack?

Speaking of Damage Field, how does it interact with Force-field? If you roll for force-field against an attack and lose, and the foe has a damage field, do you get to roll force-field again against the separate damage field roll?

Apologies for any confusion. Thanks!

[fourcolorfigs]

I like the idea of Counterattack giving you Reflection, as they are already very similar. This would keep it simpler.

I had a question about Reflection though - does it work against Damage Field?

Basically, if a foe has damage field, and hits you in melee, they then roll for Damage Field. If they miss that roll, do you then also get to roll Reflection/Counterattack?

Speaking of Damage Field, how does it interact with Force-field? If you roll for force-field against an attack and lose, and the foe has a damage field, do you get to roll force-field again against the separate damage field roll?

Apologies for any confusion. Thanks!

Good questions! I have clarified these.

Here's the revised text:

====================
Damage Field (minor)
Spend a free action to activate or deactivate this power. You surround yourself with a deadly field (crackling energy, quills, acid, etc.). Anyone touching you (successful attacks or knockbacks) suffers a 4D Body damage attack. This damage does not cause knockback, and is unaffected by the Force-Field power. Resolve this after resolving any successful attack action. Anytime you handle a scenario objective while your power is active make a 2+ Chance roll; if you fail the objective is harmed by your power and does not count toward victory.


Push It: Anytime you activate your damage field you can declare that you’re pushing its power--the field increases to 6D until the beginning of your next turn, then shuts down. Recharge 2+


Example: Echidna has a body with super-hard quills. He gets punched by the Siberian. First Echidna’s player notes the Body damage done by Siberian’s attack, then rolls his 4D Damage Field against the burly Russian! Next turn he decides to Push It. His field damage increases to 6D, but it will shut down at the beginning of the following turn, and he’ll have to make a 2+ recharge check to restart it.

Example: Echidna punches Siberian back! He hits and first resolves the melee damage, then makes the 4D check for his Damage Field, and Siberian resists as normal.

Example: Bot hammers Echidna’s teammate, Wildman. He delivers 10” of knockback to the unlucky mutate as well, and his path takes him directly into Echidna! Now Wildman must also defend against his teammate’s 4D Damage Field. 
==============================

My reasoning behind this is that you resolve a Damage Field attacker's physical attack first (punch, kick, etc.). That's where your Force-Field either protects you or not. Once you resolve the attacker's punch or kick, his Damage Field kicks in, and its already bypassed the FF.


Now, Reflection:

===========================
Reflection (minor)
You can sometimes turn Body-damaging attacks back on your attacker! Anytime you successfully defend against a Body-damaging attack you can choose to make a Chance roll. On a 2+, your attacker suffers 2 Body damage. Armor reduces the damage from this effect, but Force-Field has no effect on it. Reflection has no effect on failed Damage Field attack checks.
=============================

My thinking here is that in the comics, the Damage Field guy is usually immune to his own destructive field. And it just makes things simpler. 

[Cait Sidhe]

Scott's version of "I Have a Plan" is less powerful then my idea, but it really works as it only allows a single teammate to follow your turn. I think it will be fine and makes it a valuable reason for taking a Mastermind. Remember, there is no guarantee it even works and still needs a Re-charge.

It is a lot more balanced than the original suggestion and it's probably OK with the chance roll. I was pretty skeptical about how balanced sorcery was originally but in using it, it turned out to be not so reliable with the recharges which balanced it a bit.

As for Burrowing, don't think in terms of strength or weakness, but in terms of character theme for your models. I gave up 40K for that thought process and would rather build a Super Group with a theme I like and corresponding powers and abilities to fit their background instead of optimal statistical advantages. Scott could never have a any hope of doing that, and it's pretty clear that is not the bottom line of his concept.

Oh I agree that trying to balance a game like this isn't going to be possible especially given the wide variety of powers and the fact that everything costs the same amount of "points" essentially. In the case of burrowing however, I feel it's pretty directly comparable to other movement based powers and comes out fairly inferior. The knockdown effect could give it a bit more utility, I'll need to test it out.

[kimryoung]

Not so sure the latest version of Burrowing is quite the feel of comics. As it is now it’s more a power attack with the +2 D for charging. Attached to the Brick archetype that’s 8D attacks, and if you combine it with their Haymaker maneuver 8d with +2 re-rolls is going to inflict a lot of hits! This was what prompted adding more Body to the character to prevent first hit KO’s.

To me, Burrowing does give ability to go underground to skirt obstacles but not deadly melee advantage. I don’t even see it as a Brick power. When I think of Burrowing I think, Mole Man or even the Under-Miner, and especially the Mole People from the old Sci-fi movie, but not a heavy weight brick.

Burrowing should give the ability to skirt terrain, but I think it should allow the character, his team or minions the ability to arrive on the battlefield from below ground by surprise at any point and possibly an escape via burrowing.

Perhaps instead of attack benefits, you could have defensive bonus (there are already plenty of attack powers), quick escape, instant cover, etc. That and moving your team onto and of the field from a surprise location (say a 5” hole that can be placed anywhere for the team to arrive on the board and escape through.)

As it is right now, you are only going to get a Mole-Hulk.

Kim

[Cait Sidhe]

To me, Burrowing does give ability to go underground to skirt obstacles but not deadly melee advantage. I don’t even see it as a Brick power. When I think of Burrowing I think, Mole Man or even the Under-Miner, and especially the Mole People from the old Sci-fi movie, but not a heavy weight brick.

Burrowing should give the ability to skirt terrain, but I think it should allow the character, his team or minions the ability to arrive on the battlefield from below ground by surprise at any point and possibly an escape via burrowing.

Perhaps instead of attack benefits, you could have defensive bonus (there are already plenty of attack powers), quick escape, instant cover, etc. That and moving your team onto and of the field from a surprise location (say a 5” hole that can be placed anywhere for the team to arrive on the board and escape through.)

I actually had similar thoughts re: making burrowing more defensive than offensive. The infiltrated deployment didn't occur to me but could be interesting. I was thinking of maybe it should be possible to remain burrowed, perhaps making the character un-targettable or just giving some kind of defensive/hiding bonus. There would have to be restrictions ofc such as not being able to burrow in the same turn you surface and perhaps a restriction on carrying objectives.

[fourcolorfigs]

I will make some adjustments to burrowing today. 😀

[fourcolorfigs]

Some alternate Burrowing text:

Burrowing (minor)
You can travel underground at your normal Move rate. It costs only a free action to submerge and start burrowing, or stop burrowing and re-surface, but once you’ve surfaced, you cannot burrow again until next turn. You can burrow through or under any intervening terrain as if it were normal ground. If you choose to surface in base contact with a foe you count as charging if you wish to attack him in melee. While burrowing you remain close enough to the surface to be attacked, but you’re more difficult to hit. While burrowing you gain +2 Re-rolls to your defense check because you're submerged. Mark burrowing characters with a counter to let everyone know they're special status. 

[PigmentedMini]

Are you going to be able to create a trap with burrowing? As in opening a pit under a model and sucking it in.  A little off the subject but here is a drawing I did for my final in design class. Its from a Supersystem game I played last week.
Super Battle by Pigmented Miniatures, on Flickr
http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/26/10222_14_12_16_9_10_29.JPG

[fourcolorfigs]

Are you going to be able to create a trap with burrowing? As in opening a pit under a model and sucking it in.  A little off the subject but here is a drawing I did for my final in design class. Its from a Supersystem game I played last week.

http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/26/10222_14_12_16_9_10_29.JPG

Some more revised Burrowing text:

==============
Burrowing (minor)
You can travel underground at your normal Move rate. It costs only a free action to submerge and start burrowing, or stop burrowing and re-surface, but once you’ve surfaced, you cannot burrow again until next turn. You can burrow through or under any intervening terrain as if it were normal ground. You cannot resurface within a solid object, so plan your movement accordingly. If you choose to surface in base contact with a foe you count as charging if you wish to attack him in melee. Instead of attacking when you surface, you can create fissures and tremors that could unbalance your foes. When you surface use your special action to create these tremors; any enemies within 5” of you must make a TN3 check or be knocked down. While burrowing you remain close enough to the surface to be attacked, but you’re more difficult to hit. While burrowing you gain +2 Re-rolls to your defense checks against Body-damaging attacks because you're submerged. Mark burrowing characters with a counter to let everyone know they're special status. 
==============

[fourcolorfigs]

Uploaded latest revisions:

-- version 1.32
-- revised Burrowing text
-- added examples to Reflection
-- edited text for clarity and readbility

https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6

Thanks for looking!