[Goalsystem] Super Mission Force

[fourcolorfigs]

Should Servitor/Sidekicks and Thralls made by the Vampire power be prevented from creating more vampires? What about summoned beings? While it would fit the fictional tropes for vampires to spread, it may be a game balance issue...

There is a 2% the Vampiric thrall would get the Vampire power. That's not unbalanced, I think.

Also, what about a power to make barriers/walls?

This is a very good idea. Forgot it. I just hate writing these sorts of powers for competitive play. But I'll get to work on it. 

[fourcolorfigs]

Have at it...

Barrier (minor)
You can use a special action to create a TN3 (Body 4), 3” long x 2” tall x 1” thick barrier on the battlefield. Make a standard 4D check when you create your barrier. Each goal you score can add 1” to the barrier’s width and height. You can place the barrier up to 10” away from you. You must place your barrier on solid ground, or anchored between two solid objects. Use the rules for breaking objects in Chapter 3 when models try to break through your barrier. You can stack barriers on top of each other, or one behind the other. You can remove a barrier you created from play by simply spending a free action. You cannot place your barrier on top of models, or in any way use it as an attack. Recharge 2+

[fourcolorfigs]

Version 1.39 is now up:

https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6

Lots of general edits and the inclusion of the Barrier power.

[kimryoung]

Good Job Scott,

Hope you don’t mind a few more thoughts as you near completion.

On Henchmen:

Need to remove the Veterans (Yes/No) since you have done away with them.

How about Flight as a minor power choice for Henchmen? These could be Darkseid’s Para-Demons, Giant Bats, Swarms of Drones (of which I have the models!), Winged Warriors, Rocket-Men, etc. Currently you only have 7 power choices so one more choice is consistent.

Still need to address whether summoned henchmen get one or two minor powers. Maybe you should only get Henchmen (with 2 minor powers) on a roll of 6+ instead of 4+ and that would be fair.

Also

Shouldn’t the “Escape Artist” maneuver also allow you to escape from being entrapped by the Entangle power?  Logic seems that it should.

On Archetype Maneuvers:

It seems the Mentalist Maneuver “Mind Meld” is overpowered. It says it grants ALL your teammates +2 Re-rolls. Is there no limit? If it’s a large game, or even with 6 street level archetype teammates in normal size game it is a lot to add. There is also no range limit, just everyone on the board. No restriction even if you are in melee.

The trade-off of losing 1 Psyche box is pretty minimal since the Mentalist starts with 8 damage boxes. If your opponent has no characters capable of inflicting Psyche damage, you can pretty much take yourself down to 1 box with no fear. This, at only a 1+ recharge, makes this very powerful, especially in the first few turns of the game.

This is way better than Enhance power. Even if you limited the bonus to a single model each turn (which would be my suggestion) it is still pretty darn good. Please take another look at this.

Finally,

To get a little more variety for certain characters armed with weapons/combat mastery, etc., consider two different types of Melee weapons. This allows you to differentiate between heavy/offensive type weapons such as two handed weapons, killer claws, or giant hammers, etc., and lighter weapons like swords that can thrust and parry, a pair of matched weapons in each hand, protective gauntlets with blades, self defense mastery,etc. Consider this revision for Melee Weapons:

Melee Weapon (minor)
You possess some sort of special weapon or enhanced melee training--chi energy, claws, energy sword,
hammer, etc. It’s intrinsically part of your character, and cannot easily be taken from you. It grants you +2
Re-rolls on melee attack goal rolls, and +2D on any checks to break objects or escape entangles.

You may optionally have a weapon or training that can parry or block your opponent’s attacks as well as aid your own melee attacks (such as a sword, pair of sais or daggers, steel gauntlets, advanced martial arts, etc.). It grants you +1 Re-rolls on melee attack and melee defense goal rolls, and +1D on any checks to break objects or escape entangles, and also to escape a grapple.

Comment – it’s a minor point, but certain models fit the second choice for the type of Melee Weapons they are armed with, allowing some defensive capability for less attack value. It also is a better fit for certain henchman models.

And one more thing:
Looking at the 4 vs a Titan (which I like!) the choice between Tough Out and Hordes is a no brainer to take the Henchmen over the +1D on your KO check.

Gain +1D to All Defensive checks is a more equitable choice for Tough Out, and makes for a Really Tough Titan! Will take some teamwork to take this guy down! (Think Thanos or Darkseid). That will be Fun.

Keep up the good work, I like what you’re doing.

Kim

[fourcolorfigs]

Kim, I made some adjustments based on your comments. Thanks as always!

[fourcolorfigs]

Just a general aside on design and the rules.

As I've begun to fine-tune things, I've looked more closely at the "numbers" and what they do and mean.

For example, +2 Re-rolls is actually better than +1D. So 4D[2] averages 3.72 goals, and 5D averages 3.32 goals. Meanwhile a 4D[1] dice pool averages 3.29, a number I can live with.

I wasn't liking the 4D[2] for certain minor powers like Super-Agility and Melee Weapon. So I've adjusted them to grant just +1 Re-roll, and tweaked them to grant other benefits. As an example, here's what those powers look like now:

====================
Melee Specialist (minor)
You possess some sort of special weapon or enhanced melee training--chi energy, claws, energy sword, esoteric martial arts, hammer, etc. It’s intrinsically part of your character, and cannot easily be taken from you. It grants you +1 Re-roll on melee attack rolls, +1 Re-roll on melee defense rolls, and +2D on any checks to break objects or escape entangles.


Super-Agility (minor)
You are gifted with incredible, sometimes superhuman athleticism! You gain +2” to your move and +1 Re-roll on all defense checks against Body damaging attacks, and any check to avoid being knocked down. You can move up, hang from, and walk along vertical surfaces as if they were normal ground. You can also spend a Move action to move between structures or other vertical terrain pieces within 15” of each other by swinging on lines or making highly agile leaps. You must be in contact with one of the structures before initiating this move. Place yourself anywhere on the structure within 15” of your starting point.

Example: Arachno-Man (Super-Agility) starts his turn next to a building and moves straight up the side 9” (his normal move). Next turn, he measures and notes a nearby building sits 14” away. He spends his Move action and places himself on the side of that building. It pays to be super-agile!
=====================

Notice I changed Melee Weapon's name to Melee Specialist. Fergal has been on me to do this for weeks, and this change in the rules finally prompted me to do so!  

I've also been going through the rules and trying to balance each minor power based on what it gives you. Look, they're not all going to be equal. That's not my mission with SMF, but I can at least try to make them close.

So a minor power can do one or two important things, or maybe three or four less critical, but cool things.

Take Power Blasts (minor). It gives you "permission" to make a 15" ranged attack, AND gives you +1D[1] to give it up some teeth (yes, I added a Re-roll to both Power Blasts; I wanted to give them some more teeth in play). That's 2 pretty critical things.  

Now let's look at Super-Agility more closely. I would argue it does 4 less critical things: 1. +2" Move, 2. +1 Re-roll on Body defenses and knockdown, 3. enhanced movement (vertical surfaces), 4. enhanced movement (swinging).

SO are these balanced with each other? Maybe. They are for me. I've played about 20 games and listened to a lot of feedback. I've also been playing and writing Goalsystem games for 15 years. Does that mean I'm always spot on with these things? Heck no. Just read this thread to see where I've initially missed on things.  

Anyway, these musings are here to give you some insight into why I've tinkered and tweaked the way I have over the last few revisions.

As always, thanks for reading!

P.S. I'll throw up another revision later today!

[fergal]

Anyway, these musings are here to give you some insight into why I've tinkered and tweaked the way I have over the last few revisions.

I think that you've been very open in your thinking all along!  I know I appreciate it and I think others do as well.  

I love the way it's shaping up and I love that you aren't trying to make things exactly equal.  I really appreciate that the simplicity is really still there.  I don't care if things are balanced for competitive play, I don't think anyone really thinks it's necessary.  I do however love the fact that you have been spending time clarifying things, even if it seem tedious on your end at times.  I think it will pay off in the end, and you will end up with a tight system.  I'd prefer a tight, fun rule system over a competitive one any day.

[fourcolorfigs]

I think that you've been very open in your thinking all along!  I know I appreciate it and I think others do as well.  

I love the way it's shaping up and I love that you aren't trying to make things exactly equal.  I really appreciate that the simplicity is really still there.  I don't care if things are balanced for competitive play, I don't think anyone really thinks it's necessary.  I do however love the fact that you have been spending time clarifying things, even if it seem tedious on your end at times.  I think it will pay off in the end, and you will end up with a tight system.  I'd prefer a tight, fun rule system over a competitive one any day.

Thanks, fergal! I'm getting there with a lot of help from he LAF cognoscenti!  You included!

[fourcolorfigs]

Version 1.40 is now up:

https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6

Lots of tweaks to various Re-roll totals and other adjustments

https://app.box.com/s/4sx2qknhb2nd4ptn8o4wrvmqd3ldgoa6

Changes to:

-- Melee Weapon, now Melee Specialist
-- Savant
-- Super-Agility
-- Backgrounds all changed from Re-rolls to dice bonuses

Edited and clarified a bunch other text.

Thanks for looking!

[kimryoung]

Awesome Scott!

A couple more questions:

Does Counter Attack (Reflection) allow Knock Back if successful?

Speed (major power):

Does Machine Gun Punch work with Move-By Attack?

Does Charge or Hurricane Charge apply throughout these attacks or just the initial attack?

How about Re-roll bonuses such as melee specialist?

Finally, shouldn’t Speed allow a hero to run up the side of a building? (Flash does this all the time!) You could just count moving up the side of a building as moving through difficult ground, but must end your turn on level ground.

Keep going!

Kim

[fourcolorfigs]

Awesome Scott!

A couple more questions:

Does Counter Attack (Reflection) allow Knock Back if successful?

More great questions! No. I've added a note to Reflection that says it does not cause KB.

Speed (major power):

Does Machine Gun Punch work with Move-By Attack?

No. I'll  note this.

Does Charge or Hurricane Charge apply throughout these attacks or just the initial attack?

Move-by attack is not a charge attack. I noted this.

How about Re-roll bonuses such as melee specialist?

The Re-roll from a power like Melee Specialist is part of your core melee ability. I did change the wording on MG Punch to read +1D rather than the "5D" pool. This will make it conceptually easier to think about adding the +1D and the Re-roll from Melee Specialist in together. I hope. 

Finally, shouldn’t Speed allow a hero to run up the side of a building? (Flash does this all the time!) You could just count moving up the side of a building as moving through difficult ground, but must end your turn on level ground.

Yeah, I've thought this a lot. I may add it in. The key is kleeping that rough balance. Don't want speed to be able to do too much.

I'll mull it over some more.

Thanks!

[kimryoung]

Yeah, I've thought this a lot. I may add it in. The key is keeping that rough balance. Don't want speed to be able to do too much.

I'll mull it over some more.

Thanks!

Maybe allow it as I suggested (moving up walls like difficult terrain, must end move on level ground) but may not use any special maneuvers and do not get any charge bonus.

This would be a balanced trade off I think

Kim

[kimryoung]

Here are some other ideas for powers (Wild Card) that I think would represent comic characters as well as fit many of the models:

Gunfighter (minor)
You are a firearms specialist armed with a machine gun, assault weapon, multiple pistols, etc. You can make a 15” ranged attack. Your shots are physical in nature and inflict Body damage.
In addition to your normal attack during your turn, you may make one (1) additional ranged attack in the round directed at an opposing character during their turn after they move and just before their combat action. You cannot shoot at a character you are already in melee with, but can shoot at a character the turn they charge you before their melee attack.

Hex/Jinx (minor)
You can nullify your opponent’s powers. Use a special action against any foe up to 5” away (including in melee with you) to make a 5D opposed psyche attack. This does no damage. If you win, each goal you win by cancels one power or boost of your choice (major powers count as two). You opponent is treated as not having the power(s) you choose to cancel until the start of your next turn. Opponents that loss flying will suffer a fall. Should you be KO’d your opponents powers returns immediately. Re-charge 2+

Invulnerability (minor x 2)
Because of your alien physiology, mutant DNA, radioactively enhanced cells or demonic nature, etc. you are virtually indestructible! Gain +2D on all defense checks from Body damaging attacks and +2D on KO checks. You cannot take this with Resistance.

Surge (minor)
Just when you opponent thinks he has you beat, you are like a cornered beast, and more deadly than ever! When your last damage box is checked off, take your KO check as normal. If you pass your check, any type of damage you inflict from then on is doubled!

Thanks

Kim

[fourcolorfigs]

Here are some other ideas for powers (Wild Card) that I think would represent comic characters as well as fit many of the models:

Gunfighter (minor)
You are a firearms specialist armed with a machine gun, assault weapon, multiple pistols, etc. You can make a 15” ranged attack. Your shots are physical in nature and inflict Body damage.
In addition to your normal attack during your turn, you may make one (1) additional ranged attack in the round directed at an opposing character during their turn after they move and just before their combat action. You cannot shoot at a character you are already in melee with, but can shoot at a character the turn they charge you before their melee attack.

Hex/Jinx (minor)
You can nullify your opponent’s powers. Use a special action against any foe up to 5” away (including in melee with you) to make a 5D opposed psyche attack. This does no damage. If you win, each goal you win by cancels one power or boost of your choice (major powers count as two). You opponent is treated as not having the power(s) you choose to cancel until the start of your next turn. Opponents that loss flying will suffer a fall. Should you be KO’d your opponents powers returns immediately. Re-charge 2+

Invulnerability (minor x 2)
Because of your alien physiology, mutant DNA, radioactively enhanced cells or demonic nature, etc. you are virtually indestructible! Gain +2D on all defense checks from Body damaging attacks and +2D on KO checks. You cannot take this with Resistance.

Surge (minor)
Just when you opponent thinks he has you beat, you are like a cornered beast, and more deadly than ever! When your last damage box is checked off, take your KO check as normal. If you pass your check, any type of damage you inflict from then on is doubled!

Thanks

Kim

These are all pretty cool, Kim! I especially like Surge and Jinx (though we could just rename it to Dispel--MHoxie asked for this and I was not keen on including it because it's a PITA power). But... Joe's going to start layout this week coming up. I don't think I'll have time to play-test these properly, and I am not sure how much more I want to cram in at this point.

We have to stop somewhere or the rules will never get done!  

But I'll have a think on it. I may throw Surge in and change the name to Berserker. They could go in as archetype Maneuvers. Not sure yet. I'll mull it over.

Thanks!

[fourcolorfigs]

Ok, I am going to include Dispel because once we do, you can pretty much do anything in SMF that you could do in SS4, and that's important to me.


Anyway, here's the first stab at it, based on Kim's Jinx write-up:

========
Dispel (minor)
You can nullify your opponent’s powers or power effects. Spend a combat action against a single foe in melee or up to 5” away and make a 5D opposed Psyche attack. This does no damage. On a success, each goal you win by cancels one of the target's powers or boosts of your choice (major powers require 2 goals). Your opponent loses access to the power(s) you choose to cancel until the start of your next turn. Opponents that lose Flight will suffer a fall. Should you be KO’ed your target's powers return immediately. You can also direct this power at effects like Barriers, Entangles, and Summoned creatures. Use the exact same procedure detailed above, but instead of taking the target's power away, you remove the effect (i.e., the barrier, the entangle, or the summoned creature). If you target the same character more than once, he gains +1 Re-roll to resist your power after the first attempt. Recharge 2+
========

I included that last bit because as a player I hate denial powers. They're not fun, IMHO, and so if you want to continually rob a player's coolest model of his fun stuff, he'll at least get a slight buff to prevent it.