What version of the E-50 do we want?

[Ballardian]

Please excuse me, but I'm going to have a bit of a ramble - while contemplating the immanence of JTFM's lovely E-series I started to wonder which version of the next most useful tank in the series, the E-50, would be the one people would prefer - after all I can think of two/three different visions of it off the bat, all with varying degrees of of historical likelyhood.
 The first would be the commonest, something resembling a Tiger II hull with a simplified (six wheel) suspension (whether front or rear drive another point of contension - rear makes sense & there is some historical support, but isn't represented as such in current models - other then Ken Overby's excellent 1/72 ones) & sharing the turret with the Panther F, (with a large - 18"-2' bulge/blister in the turret front in order to accomodate the Tiger II's 88.
 Secondly comes a version which, while on the same hull, has a rather different turret - essentially it looks like the Panther F turret again but extended with a large bustle.
 Finally are variants of the above but with either front or rear drive - so which one would we prefer to see made?
 Personally I'm leaning toward the bustled turret version (it makes sense to me - the 88 is very large & the F turret, even with the blister to house some of its length would be very cramped indeed - not to mention where would you put ammo ready racks - the bustle version would have provided considerably more room & the racks could be placed in the bustle, much as they are in the Tiger II) with rear drive (again this does make sense & there's some historical support  - well as much as you can expect for stuff that barely went beyond 'back of a napkin' - as it dispenses with the need for the lengthy driveshaft & the dodgy final drive issues that dogged the Panther & the early prodution Tiger II's).
 So which of these would people prefer to see realised - I don't know how far Jeff is along in preparing for the bigger E-series vehicles but I imagine that if we want any sort of part of the process now would be the time to speak up, if only to let him know how eager we are to see him harness his skills to this project - have at it!

[Agis]

For me it is the Schmalturm E-50 sharing the turret with the Panther F.

[Rich H]

got to be rear drive, the front drive layout isn't practical.
Also some of the turrets aren't big enough for the recoil... 

[Bon_Vivant]

If you want to sell more. 
Whichever E 50 is in World of Tanks.

[rabenga]

Rear drive.  Bustle.  All the way. 

[Cambra]

For me front drive, i don't realy like the aspect of the rear drive and then the bustle.

But Bod-Vivant as a point, World of Tanks would be a good guide and way for you to sell more tanks

[Ballardian]

Bon_Vivant & Cambra - WOT has both versions, a front drive, Schmalturm equiped standard E-50 & a rear drive, Schmalturm with a bustle 'Ausf M' - I don't play the game, but it appears that the 'Ausf M' version is the superior (in-game at least) though I don't know if this means anything in terms of its popularity!
 I get why some recoil from the notion of a WWII German AVF with a rear drive sprocket - initially it just looked odd to me also, plus representations of the E-50 (1/35 Trumpeter, 1/100 Heer46 & FIB models) do follow what we think of as 'conventional' period design - front drive with a version of the Schmalturm. But it does seem that the designers did intend to move to rear drive (less to go wrong), hence why I came around to the 'Ausf M' version - but hey, it's wierd war so there's a certain amount of wiggle room - the guy at Paperpanzer elided the two with his rather lovely 1/35 kit

[rabenga]

The paper panzer guys have some awesome kits, if only we could get them to produce in 1/56!  Mabey a letter writing campaign is in order...

[Ballardian]

Rabenga - I did have a brief email correspondance with Paperpanzers owner, but, as I think I posted at the time, he's another small business (like JTFM) who specialises in 1/35, (& to a lesser extent 1/48) kits & conversion parts & isn't geared up for 1/56. He did however express an interest, but it would require the co-operation of someone well versed in producing models at that scale (masters & molds or CAD).

[Predatorpt]

Rabenga - I did have a brief email correspondance with Paperpanzers owner, but, as I think I posted at the time, he's another small business (like JTFM) who specialises in 1/35, (& to a lesser extent 1/48) kits & conversion parts & isn't geared up for 1/56. He did however express an interest, but it would require the co-operation of someone well versed in producing models at that scale (masters & molds or CAD).

And that's basically the same reply I received after my email. 

[rabenga]

That's good to know.  Some friends and I are working on some cad roughs for an e-50/75 hull right now.  At the rate we are going, we might have something that's producible in 5 years... . We are trying to cad the wheels, tracks and fiddly bits, print them and then scratch the hull and detail...at that point we can 3d scan and cast the master...If anyone wants to start making bits, that would be awesome...

[Rich H]

Why print and scan?  Just print and cast?

I've got a Centurion and Katchzen and stuff to build first...

[von der Tann]

E-50 Ausf. M ... the turret looks way cooler than that Panther rip off thing .... just my humble opinion though.

[FramFramson]

Bon_Vivant & Cambra - WOT has both versions, a front drive, Schmalturm equiped standard E-50 & a rear drive, Schmalturm with a bustle 'Ausf M' - I don't play the game, but it appears that the 'Ausf M' version is the superior (in-game at least) though I don't know if this means anything in terms of its popularity!
 I get why some recoil from the notion of a WWII German AVF with a rear drive sprocket - initially it just looked odd to me also, plus representations of the E-50 (1/35 Trumpeter, 1/100 Heer46 & FIB models) do follow what we think of as 'conventional' period design - front drive with a version of the Schmalturm. But it does seem that the designers did intend to move to rear drive (less to go wrong), hence why I came around to the 'Ausf M' version - but hey, it's wierd war so there's a certain amount of wiggle room - the guy at Paperpanzer elided the two with his rather lovely 1/35 kit

In World of Tanks (which has progression up ten "tiers", or levels, of tanks of tanks progressing forward in time, becoming more powerful), the E50 is the Tier 9 and the E50 M is the Tier 10, the final tank in it's line. So they have gone with an implicit assumption that the E50 is the early version and the E50 M would be a later, refined version, more powerful and capable, in much the same way as the PzIV progressed from A models, to D models, to F models and so on.

Even if in reality they were two contemporaneous competing designs, WoT has implemented them as a progression.

[CompanyB]

Honestly..

If you guys are serious about wanting this tank...  I can literally have full CAD in a few weeks, and get it into production in a month.

If enough people want a custom model, figure out how many folks want, and we can quote for a limited run model, bearing in mind that I'd really need people to actually order the thing and not back out.

We just did custom CAD, printing and production for a client that wanted a RAM II turret to convert his Warlord Kangaroo kit, and I also just did the Stingray Tank for myself....So this is entirely feasible to do.

FYI- we also did the CAD for JTFM's Katchzen, E-25 and E-10.  Those models were his after that...so I can't influence when they get produced.  But we do have a track record...  This would probably be available though after our M51.  So Jan/Feb

Brent
Company B