A fully grown Spanish Tercio

[DintheDin]

Lovely!!!

The only thing that bugs me, is that I also intended to field and post a tercio in the future! But mine will be in 28mm, so perhaps it will be percieved as something novel anyway

Good work!

Thank you! We look forward to see your tercio! I'm sure it will show much more detail in 28mm.
Besides that, a massive tercio is always a formidable thing to look at!

[DintheDin]

It's nice, but I have to say the Tercios almost never wore uniforms

You are absolutely right! It was nearly impossible to see a uniformed regiment in this period. I deliberately commissioned them to be painted this way. We had several FOG-R games, where we could field three tercios this size. This one, could be the "Superior", another one with not so regular uniforms was the "Average" and the last one, with completely ragged and motley uniforms could be the "Poor" one. Needless to say that especially the Superior one, was a real steamroller (but once it was badly mauled by a six-gun battery).

[Bushbaby]

Thank you! We look forward to see your tercio! I'm sure it will show much more detail in 28mm.
Besides that, a massive tercio is always a formidable thing to look at!

Yes it will be the biggest pike block ever shown on Lead Adventure...

A question though: since I use landsknechts, what different pike/shot formations did they use? I have read that some germans among other formations used spanish squares. Would it be historically accurate?

[DintheDin]

I humbly admit that my knowledge about Early Renaissance/Landsknechts is limited.
The use of pike blocks and tercios simultaneously in the same army did not last long.

Landsknecht deep pike formations were cooperating with (Landsknecht) crossbowmen or early arquebusiers, but as far as I know there is no evidence that the former were attached to the pike block. Their number used to be very small in relation to the pike block.

The first formation to employ a concrete pike/sword/shooter ratio, was the Spanish tercio.
The positioning of the pike and the shot was according to a strict drill, depending on how far or what kind of enemy they were facing. 

In fact, the Spanish proved in battle that tercios were more effective than pure pike blocks and gradually other countries imitated them using pike and shot formations.

These links may contain some helping info:

https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/582lxt/what_is_the_origin_of_tercio_formation_and_tercio/
 
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=135383
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/272gua/what_caused_the_swiss_mercenaries_to_be_replaced/

[DintheDin]

This might be useful, where, in the same battle, we can see deep pike formations and an early form of the Tercio, the Colunela:

Battle of Cerignola April 21, 1503

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/08/26/battle-of-cerignola-april-21-1503/

[FierceKitty]

Those rondeleroes look wonderful.

[DintheDin]

Thank you! Essex gives them all with flat shields, so, after some study of similar shields we had to make engravings with putty.

[DintheDin]

Yes it will be the biggest pike block ever shown on Lead Adventure...

A question though: since I use landsknechts, what different pike/shot formations did they use? I have read that some germans among other formations used spanish squares. Would it be historically accurate?

Among my FOG-R Army Lists, I found one which may be the exact answer to your question:

Austrian Imperial, 1534, where one can meet Landsknecht pike formations and Spanish Tercios in the same army. One must not forget that Spanish troops were available to German armies of the era, as both were Hapsburgs.

The list, showing a possible army composition, goes like that:
4 Generals (Troop Commander quality)
1 group of 4 Imperial Gendarmes, Fully Armoured, Superior, Heavy Lance, Sword
1 group of 4 "Hussars", Light Horse, Unarmoured, Average, Bow, Sword
1 big group of 14 Landsknechte, Heavy Foot, Armoured, Superior, 12 Pike, 2 Heavy Weapon (Halberd, etc)
3 groups of 4 Hakenbuchsenschutzen, Light Foot, Unarmoured, Average, Arquebus
1 group of 6 Hakenbuchsenschutzen, Medium Foot, Unarmoured, Average, Arquebus
1 group of 2 Field Guns, Medium Artillery
1 group of 4 Spanish M-A-A, Fully Armoured, Superior, Light Lance, Sword
1 group of 4 Jinetes, Light Horse, Unarmoured, Average, Javelin, Sword
1 big group of 16 Spanish Tercio, Superior, 8 Armoured Pikes Heavy Foot, 8 Unarmoured Arquebus Medium Foot
3 base lenghts of Field Fortifications

As you can see, the shot was incorporated with the Tercio pikes, while Landsknecht shot was more loosely cooperating with Landsknecht pikes, employed mainly as skirmishers.

I hope this list gives you a rough idea to modify it by analogy for your favorite game rules.


  

[Bushbaby]

Probably it will be something like this:

[DintheDin]

As it concerns the Tercio, yes. But the positioning of shot was not permanent, they were constantly moving, according to where the threat was.
Usually, when they took a place at the four corners of the pike block, they were called "horns", when they were covering a whole side of the pike block, one could call them "wings".

http://historywarsweapons.com/spanish-tercio/

One usual tactic was four tercios to walk in the battlefield in a diamond shape, as shown in the picture below. Or three tercios, in a triangular pattern, with the middle tercio ahead of the two other. In the picture the pikemen are depicted as high blocks and the arquebusiers are around them, taking the best relative position so that they can have the best shooting angle. The whole formation was protected by cavalry. Of course, this is an ideal drawing.

[DintheDin]

Probably it will be something like this:

The title of the drawing:
"The order of a square battaile, impayled with winges and troupes of shotte, as in the fielde is used in these dayes"

Very interesting description of a tercio! Could you please provide the link?

[DintheDin]

An interesting note:

"As for the naming of the units: The Germans called a unit from several combined companies a "Gewalthaufen" (force heap). Then the French term "bataille" (battle) came into use, later changed to "bataillon" (battalion) and in the late seventeenth century institutionalized as a defined part of the regiment.

But in the Thirty Years' War the companies were combined by temporary orders, the French term being "ordonnance" (German Ordonnanz, English ordinance). Several different ordinances were used, the last known being the Spanish Ordinance, also called Catholic or Burgundy Ordinance on the HRE side and the Dutch or Swedish Ordinance on the other.

Within the Spanish Ordinance the troops were grouped as "Gevierthaufen" (pike square, also see illustration of the battle of Breitenfeld), these had the Spanish name "tercio", which is used within the 1632 series"

From the book "Ring of Fire IV" - Eric Flint

Breitenfeld picture source:
https://iactaaleaest.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/lutzen1632-12.jpg


  

[Bushbaby]

Very interesting description of a tercio! Could you please provide the link?

I just did a google image search on "pike and shot formations"

[fred]

One usual tactic was four tercios to walk in the battlefield in a diamond shape, as shown in the picture below. Or three tercios, in a triangular pattern, with the middle tercio ahead of the two other. In the picture the pikemen are depicted as high blocks and the arquebusiers are around them, taking the best relative position so that they can have the best shooting angle. The whole formation was protected by cavalry. Of course, this is an ideal drawing.

Cool picture - its making me want to get out my figures and recreate this. A bit late now, but might try this tomorrow night before gaming.

[DintheDin]

I just did a google image search on "pike and shot formations"

Right! It is top first in Wikipedia. 
Here is one depicting the battle in White Mountain, 1620, where we can see the "ideal" tercio formation:
A central pike block and four groups of musketeers, stationed at its corners, the "horns".
Bohemians above, Imperial and Bavarian forces below.
 In this case, we see that the tercio concept is adopted by both armies.

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_White_Mountain
http://www.pockettactics.com/news/new-bohemians-hands-preview-pike-shot/