Some Questions after a first game

[dflament]

maybe we read into the rules too much but we have a few questions after our first game, which was fun btw  

1) Nerves of steel; 6 pdr received 3 suppression in total due to a casualty and MG42 suppression. 6pdr has the 'Nerves of steel' ability with HP/3. Is this unit shaken and does it have to make a withdrawal move?

2) Shot at an infantry unit with a deployed HMG-42. Infantry platoon had already 1 casualty and 2 suppression markers (so 9 guys still standing). Did 3 more casualties (6 guys left) so 5 extra suppressions (7 total) are taken on this unit. The unit becomes shaken but what happens with the last suppression marker (6 guys left with 7 suppression at the end of the shooting action)?

3) Mortar hit outside a building but the 3" bubble overlaps soldiers inside the building. Do the soldiers inside the structure take damage or is this a structure hit (which does nothing as the medium mortar does D6 damage and the structure needed 8+ to hit)?

many thanks already, looking forward to your answers and our next game!

[seldon]

I think I can help with the first two, will leave the third one for the Rulesmaster since mi answer with just be an interpretation

1) HP/3 .. -1 casualty.. currently two hits left. They have 3 suppressions so that would mean that one of the guys remaining cannot participate in the shoot action ( nerves of steel means that it takes two suppression to cancel the shoot action of one guy). They would still be shaken at 3 suppresions  given that they have 2 hits left ( would be as well with 3 hits still ), but the unit probably also has "Dedicated" special rule which would mean that with 2 hits left you need 4 suppressions to get the unit shaken. Does it have "dedicated" ?

2) Where it says platoon I believe it means squad ( except for us Aargentines, we call 10 man sections platoons and 3 of these "platoons" a section )... 
The last suppression in this case is ignored.
If they had been shaken when you initiated the fire action then each suppression would have been an extra hit to save, but if they were not, simply add all the suppression, if it is enough to get them shaken, replace with a shaken marker and forget about any excess suppression. Again this is only because they were not shaken at the start of the fire action, this reads from the way the rules sequence the steps to apply suppression and when you check for the "shaken" condition and Agis has also confirmed this I believe.

3) ... I don't know the official answer, for game purposes I would just assume that the guys in the building in the template get hit with the cover benefits, but that is only my interpretation.. will see what the master says


It is a fun set of rules indeed , right ?

cheers
Francisco

[Agis]

OK, here comes the Masters voice!
 
Short version - seldom is right on all points!


1 - Shaken, please see P.11 "Units are Shaken once they have received a number of Suppression Marker equal to the number of current models – or HPs in the case of units with the HP/X Ability - in the unit."
Following your example the unit has 3 Suppression.

See P. 21 for Dedicated and P. 23 for Nerves of steel.
The 6 pdr has both abilities (See p. 68).
Consequently the unit is not Shaken.

2 - Since the unit was not not Shaken when coming under fire the extra suppression is indeed ignored. 4.1.3 come only in play if the unit was already shaken!

3 - Please 12.5 Shooting at units inside a Structure P. 41 "The unit inside the structure counts as in Cover. The type of cover is determined by the type of structure. Infantry Cover Saves apply, roll Damage Dice as usual."
and Blast (P.25) together with Indirect (P.26): "A unit under attack from Indirect weapon determines cover as if attacked from the Target Point."
So "the guys in the building in the template get hit with the cover benefits".


Thanks seldom!!! 

[seldon]

Look at that.. 3 out of 3 !!!  Even the bonus question...

I'll buy myself a chocolate !!

Francisco

[Agis]

Well deserved...

[dflament]

Many thanks for the answers guys! greatly appreciated. Tonight will be my second game so maybe i'll have some more questions

It is a fun set of rules indeed , right ?

Yes it is, atm the only thing i'm missing is an "overwatch" action. Apparently this has been discussed before and Agis says that you will not miss it after a few games. We use to play 15mm Flames of War but changed over to the Battlegroup ruleset. The "Reserve" order and "Ambush" order (= overwatch) were a game changer for me in a very positive way. Opened a lot of tactical options which I so missed in Flames of War.

Is there a possibility to use the "overwatch" action from the Raid rules for vanilla ViDe?

[Agis]

Great and keep us updated!

I still think that Overwatch is mostly not needed in games of ViDe WWII.

If you want to use Overwatch I would recommend the rules from Future Combat.
Try the Raid rules also!
If any questions come up, just ask here!

[dflament]

Ok, let's first learn the vanilla rules before using any additional house rules. Here's another one my gaming buddy asked me over WhatsApp

Imagine I get 4 hits on a HMG unit with HP/3. He saves 2 of those hits, 2 unsaved hits is not enough to cause a casualty?  so all in all nothing happens to this unit except 1 suppression due to the shoot action? Do the unsaved hits count for following shoot actions or do they dissappear?

[Agis]

No, no, no!

Coming under fire from a weapon with the suppression feature = 2 Suppression marker.
Two saves from 4 hits (great roll BTW);  so two casualties. Down to 1 HP.
2 more Suppression marker, unit is shaken!

[dflament]

Ah thx!! Right in time before my next game. I will slap my gaming buddy for asking silly question ;-)

[dflament]

We were under the assumption that every model of the unit had to receive 3 hits before being taken as a casualty... the wording of the rulebook is a bit strange to us. it says:

The number of HP (Health Points) shows how many hits each model in a unit can withstand before being removed as a casualty. If the HP/X ability is missing the model only has 1 HP. Most infantry models have only 1 HP and therefore do not have a HP/X characteristic.

We interpret this sentence as follows; (per example) if the unit is an HMQ squad then it consists of 3 models. It has the HP/3 ability so it needs 3 hits on each model for it to become a casualty

this is giving me headaches, i think we really read into the rules too much and have to look at it in a more logical sense...

[Agis]

Well you have to get it all into the full context. 

And keep the text from the weapon teams in mind.
"Weapon teams man weapons that take a long time to reload or use up their available ammo quickly. Examples are field and anti-tank guns or heavy Machine Guns.
There are two ways to represent weapon teams on the gaming table: All models are based together on one base (or infantry stand) or each model is based individually.
Weapon Teams all have a HP/X characteristic were each HP represents one crew member / model. All the rules for units with the HP/X ability apply."

The British Regimental Support 6 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun is ONE unit with  ONE  model (even if your unit actually consists of several models) with the following abilities: Dedicated, HP/3, Nerves of Steel, Weapon Team

There are other units in the game that can add additional units with the HP/X ability.
An example is the German Regimental Support 15cm Nebelwerfer 41.


If you read all abilities together I am confident that it will make perfect sense...

[seldon]

Funny... because I started with ViDe sci fi, I never noticed that there is in fact no overwatch on WWII rules !!

To keep the same mechanics I use the ViDe Sci Fi new elements, like command points and overwatch when using WWII, I can say that they don't do anything bad for the game. ViDe overwatch is not the all powerful overwatch of other systems, it is mostly a very defensive action vs units moving close to the unit in overwatch ( so for example a good use is for infantry protecting vehicles from close assault since vehicles cannot overwatch ), or when an enemy unit shoots at the guys in overwatch to try to cut down the amount of fire you are getting.

All in all works as well in WWII as in Sci Fi, of course you need to have the Sci Fi book..buut... why not get it... it is pretty cool.

Francisco

[dflament]

The British Regimental Support 6 Pounder Anti-Tank Gun is ONE unit with  ONE  model (even if your unit actually consists of several models) with the following abilities: Dedicated, HP/3, Nerves of Steel, Weapon Team

so you just throw 1 Damage Die when hit by a Blast/X weapon?

[Agis]

so you just throw 1 Damage Die when hit by a Blast/X weapon?

If your Gun is mounted with all models together on one base (like an infantry stand), than the rules for multibased miniatures apply, see P. 29 -  9.5 Multibased Infantry and Blast Weapons.