A Very British Civil War: A few thoughts/questions.

[Doc Twilight]

Hello, all.

I'm enjoying the 1938 concept, but being in the States, I'm not as well connected to the 1938 community as some of you across the pond, and had a few questions/ thoughts about the BCW '38 setting.

What's happening in the Newcastle area? Had some good friends from the area and thought it might be fun to do up some forces from that region. Any ideas?

I'm thinking about doing some Jacobites circa 1938. Has anyone else contemplated this? I'd be interested in your thoughts.

One other thing. I was intrigued by the possibility of using Irish Free State troops/uniforms, and the 1938 sourcebook mentions that Musketeer has these, but I didn't see them. Any suggestions? Looking for the regular army types rather than the irregulars. Does anyone make anything close? Does Musketeer have them in a range that hasn't been put online yet?

I'm hoping to get the group enthused about this setting, so just throwing some stuff against the wall to see what sticks. I'd love to hear your thoughts, suggestions, ideas, etc.

Thanks!

-Doc

[Lowtardog]

Ahh I am from that neck of the woods (originally)

Newcastle is mainly Royalist with a heavy contingent of the Northern Army (regulars) defending against Scot Independance (yep people have been thinking about using Jacobites or at least troops with blue bonnets ) Mine is a coastal force form the Town of North Shields, sailors, merchant marine fisherman and miners including ship yard workers that sort of thing.

Though round and about they could have incursions of Socialist factions form the Trades union presence such as Miners, Ship yards and heavy industry (think Jarrow Marchers for inspiration)


For my militia I am using the Musketeer IWI IRA. I dont think he has sculpted any Irish Regulars but they wouldnt be too different from other troops at that time. Perhaps WW1 figures or some of the Anglian Miniatures from the SCW range (I have used these with head swaps to make militia and police)



Regular WW1 British figures could be used too, only thing not too sure on it the Leggings.

[Lowtardog]

Not knowing a lot about the free state troops I cant tell whether they are riding boots or puttees, the picture above is form 1922 so not sure how much it had changed by 193601938 but going by the Brits it is likely to have stayed the same as WW1 unifomr style.

Anlgian Assaultos would work for Irish on campaign - the hats and webbing look similar though some are in overalls in the figure packs - head swaps are a doddle with these figures I have used Empress zulu war brits heads for coppers and GB Brodie helmets for militia

As the figures are all by the same guy (thankyou Mr Hicks) you can usually mix and match to your hearts content.

http://www.anglianminiatures.co.uk/8.html?frm_data1=13&frm_data1_type=large

[Bungle]

IIRC the Irish had supplies from Germany.

The Regular Eire troops wore German shaped helmets.

[Paul Hicks]

German helmets never!. Helmets made from I think German moulds but wait made in London by Vickers!. All other equipment is as the early treaty forces. All I have to say is keep an eye on Musketeer.

Paul

[Gallowglass]

This should give you a bit of information about the National army German style helmet. Oddly enough, it was made in Britain:

http://members.fortunecity.com/milit/VickersM1927a.htm

By 1940, the Army had changed to the British style "tin lid", as can be seen on the cover of "Step Together":

http://www.amazon.com/%60Step-Together-Irelands-Emergency-Veterans/dp/0716526190

The Second World War is generally referred to as "The Emergency" when referencing Ireland's involvement.

On the subject of Musketeer Miniatures producing a range of National Army troops, you've seen Hicksy's answer! They'll be very useful for gaming this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Civil_War

You might note the casualty figures for the ICW, and compare them with the War of Independence. The Irish-only affair was far bloodier.

The last page of this Googlebooks preview has a colour picture of a National Army soldier:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PcjHpAsLH1UC&dq=irish+volunteer+soldier&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=c6h7dkJXrG&sig=x0sC5FDk3qJOmQK9mOuhFm1lUaM&hl=en&ei=Je_ASfXPMNuJtgfI0LTSCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPT1,M1

The NA troops generally wore a uniform similar in cut and pattern to the British Army, although the colour was more akin to German feldgrau. The collar of the tunic was also slighty different, with a sunburst on the peaked cap. they wore brown leather gaiters 9known as leggings) instead of puttees. Officers had brown leather equipment.

You can find some more info on the early Irish Defence Forces here:

http://www.military.ie/dfhq/pubrel/publications/DFHistory.pdf

[Gallowglass]

Oh, and the National army had 64 of these:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=10141.0


Also used them as prime movers for 18lbdr field guns as well as APCs.

[Doc Twilight]

Thank you -all-. That's just loads of help. Very useful, indeed!

So, you think Newcastle's gone over to Scotland in 38, LTD? Or simply closely aligned?

-Doc

[keeper]

I would think that Newcastle and its surroundings would be very unstable and contested over by quite a few different factions, including raids into the area by Scottish forces.  Ripe and fertile ground for wargaming

Not to mention the County Palentine of Durham just to the south, with this man: Bishop Herbert Hensley Henson in charge.  I can quite imagine him taking up the title of Prince Bishop once more in order to rally the Anglican forces in the area to oust the BUF.

Best tools I've found so far in figuring out what might be happening in the area I want to fight over (Sheffield and the Peak District) are:
http://www.ponies.me.uk/maps/osmap.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Hope that Helps

[Lowtardog]

Thank you -all-. That's just loads of help. Very useful, indeed!

So, you think Newcastle's gone over to Scotland in 38, LTD? Or simply closely aligned?

-Doc

No Doc fiercly English (Briitsh) but they would see lots of incursions from Border raids by the Scots a re-emergence of Reivers perhaps

[charla51]

Don't forget the Bowes-Lyon presence in southern Durham. Their Betty was married to Prince Albert George (Geo VI), IIRC.