Epic on table, testing out two rule sets.

[Norm]

I have three different figure scales in the lead / plastic mountain and would like to become focussed on collecting one and selling the other two, but I am torn between scales and my gaming situation (standard dining table type space).

At the same time, I would like to get to the point of having a 'go to' set of rules for the period (wouldn’t we all!). 

So, I have been playing a few games with the different scales, frequently with parts of the stash on temporary bases and blank bases also being used, to do a bit of rules Vs scale thing.

Most recently I put the Epic 13.5mm on the table and ran games with Valour & Fortitude and Shadow of the Eagles rules.

I have put a chat about hat up on the blog. There is also a link in that document that goes to an initial post that looks at the whole thing of constant terrain and figure scale for stream-lined storage of terrain etc.

Anyway, for those interested, here is a link.

https://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2023/03/napoleonics-scales-and-rules-update.html

[vtsaogames]

Most interesting. How long did the games take to play, and how many turns?

I have played Shadow of the Eagles, looking at Valour and Fortitude.

[Norm]

Both played out in under two hours and that was with me doing recording and note taking.

I lost track of the number of turns, but there were more than necessary because I started the forces to far apart as I wanted to see the effect of artillery when one side has a long run in.

However, I missed the rule in SotE that allows units at such distances apart to get bonus movement and once contact did start, I was probably down to a handful of turns.

The system of hits for both sides can be quite decisive, usually 2 turns, perhaps 3, before units in action testing for rout (V&F) or at least becoming weakened (SotE) with the negative aspects that that brings.

[jon_1066]

Enjoyable read.  Scale for Napoleonics comes down to two things for me - does it look like a battlefield and can I fight historical battles without bath tubbing?

28 mm for a mass battle game is to my mind ridiculous unless you have a huge table and multiple players per side to shove them around.  For a club game this is doable but solo?  It simply ends up as 12 guys taking a flag for a walk and no reasonably sized historical battle can be completed.  eg take a relatively small battle from the 1809 campaign like Teugen Hausen.  That had 4-5 infantry brigades involved.  If you go with 28s there is absolutely no way to recreate that battle sensibly. eg 15 battalions in line are going to take up about 15 feet of table and that is a small battle of the war!  So small scale figures are needed to have smaller foot print units.

Next onto the look.  At 10 mm you can have scenery and figures more closely in alignment.  At 28 mm one house represents an entire village.  At least at 10 mm you can have a few houses to give more a feel of a settlement.  The ground scale and figure scale are closer so the battle looks better.  Likewise the unit dimensions are closer to actual in terms of depth to width.  An assault column should still be wider than it is deep, in 28 mm that is almost never going to happen.

I've gone with 6 mm because Epic wasn't around when I was choosing but my bases are about the same size.  I think it gives a better overall look, takes up much less space and allows historical battles to be recreated.  I've also gone with 6 mm O group as well which handily shares most of the terrain.

[Norm]

Thanks Jon - agree totally on the terrain, in the smaller scale I can get the representation of a hamlet with 2 - 3 buildings instead of one and perhaps have two hamlets and an extra wood or two on the table.

As for army size, in Epic, I use two bases with 40 figures giving a unit frontage of 120mm, in 20mm I use the same 2 x 60mm bases with 20 figures to give the same 120mm frontage and in 28mm, I use 2 x 80mm bases also with 20 figures to give a 160mm frontage - so the difference for me between small scale and big scale is only 40mm extra on the unit width.

What is different is head count, but for me, I prefer 20 bigger figures than 40 smaller ones.

There is also a difference in depth, so my small stuff is 20mm deep and the bigger stuff 40mm deep, so brigades in depth take up less space and probably look ‘more right’, though the impact on the table because we are talking depth is not as much as one assumes.

So for me, it is the terrain that is the more obvious area of difference and for my figures, I never want to be painting up 20 battalions per side anyway. 8 - 12 units is fine and for big battles, I am a boardgamer, so I tend to rely on those to deliver the bigger game.

taking all those circumstances together, my own likes, dislikes and needs and wants will be different than a lot of other gamers, but I suppose we are lucky in this niche hobby that we can sit back and choose from that array of product.

I also have 28mm Wars of the Roses and still on their sprues, I have 1066 armies, both of which I think are just aesthetically better in the larger scale, though that ignore practicality of course. There is plenty in the mix for me to toss around :-)

[jon_1066]

Not entirely sure why but pre gunpowder stuff I have no problem with 28 mm!