Brush-on black primer/undercoat

[Orctrader]

What are you using?

(Please don’t hijack the thread with “I use white spray...”etc.  I only use brush-on. I only use black.)

Lately results from two different tins of Humbrol enamel #33 have been disappointing. 
Have been experimenting with Liquitex Black Gesso but results have ranged from “excellent” to “disappointing.”

[dodge]

I can only say you are far more scientific than me, I too only brush on black but

I use GW Choas black or Tamyia Flat black or Vallejo Black

out of those gw and vallejo have been my favourites, I'm happy with it

what are you really after ?

dodge

[Orctrader]

I can only say you are far more scientific than me, I too only brush on black but

I use GW Choas black or Tamyia Flat black or Vallejo Black

out of those gw and vallejo have been my favourites, I'm happy with it

what are you really after ?

dodge

I know many people just use acrylic paint as the primer.  But it isn't primer is it?  It's acrylic paint    What strength does it have?  How well does it bond to the metal of the figure?  How easily does it rub off?  (I may have to test.)

[Mad Carew Snr]

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but what do you do with metal figures BEFORE you brush on primer/under-coat/whatever? With plastic its scrub scrub...

[gamer Mac]

I have always just used GW chaos black to brush undercoat all my figures. And I never really liked to varnish my figures as a couple of early attempts wasted the paint job. I am a gamer more than a painter so my figures used to see a lot of use. I never really had a lot of problems with paint coming off unless it was a figure getting dropped on to a hard floor or something like that.
For years I never used spray paint again because of a few early problems with bubbles wasting the model.
Only recently turned to spray. But on a lot of occasions I still touch up the spray under coat by brushing GW chaos black. No problems.

[keeper]

On the occasions that I do brush-prime a miniature, or when I'm fixing up undercuts with brush-on after spraying, I use System 3 Mars Black or Titanium White, as appropriate.

I don't think I'd recommend going out and buying either of these, due to the expense, but since I have 500ml tubs of each of these that were passed onto me by an artist friend who experimented with acrylics and found he didn't really like them, they just need to be used when the occassion demands   They go on nicely, although they need a little thinning (about 4 parts paint to 1 or 2 parts water) to be suitable for undercoating.  I've always found them to adhere well and give good coverage without obscuring detail.

[dodge]

I can only say you are far more scientific than me, I too only brush on black but

I use GW Choas black or Tamyia Flat black or Vallejo Black

out of those gw and vallejo have been my favourites, I'm happy with it

what are you really after ?

dodge

I know many people just use acrylic paint as the primer.  But it isn't primer is it?  It's acrylic paint    What strength does it have?  How well does it bond to the metal of the figure?  How easily does it rub off?  (I may have to test.)

You are right it's just paint, Bonds well enough, once you have painted and varnished it shouldn't rub off.

Have a go you have nothing to lose 

dodge

[Ray Rivers]

I know many people just use acrylic paint as the primer.  But it isn't primer is it?  It's acrylic paint    What strength does it have?  How well does it bond to the metal of the figure?  How easily does it rub off?  (I may have to test.)

You are right it's just paint, Bonds well enough, once you have painted and varnished it shouldn't rub off.

Same here... and no problems.

Be sure to varnish well though.

[Mad Carew Snr]

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but what do you do with metal figures BEFORE you brush on primer/under-coat/whatever? With plastic its scrub scrub...

The reason I ask this stupid question is that many years ago I painted metal figures with enamels. Recently I have returned to gaming using plastic figures, which obviously need washing and scrubbing to remove the mould-oils before painting - I undercoat them with GW Chaos Black. No problem. However, white metal figures don't seem to take this so well as an undercoat. Is there a pre-clean required for metal if I use acrylics?

[Orctrader]

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but what do you do with metal figures BEFORE you brush on primer/under-coat/whatever? With plastic its scrub scrub...

The reason I ask this stupid question is that many years ago I painted metal figures with enamels. Recently I have returned to gaming using plastic figures, which obviously need washing and scrubbing to remove the mould-oils before painting - I undercoat them with GW Chaos Black. No problem. However, white metal figures don't seem to take this so well as an undercoat. Is there a pre-clean required for metal if I use acrylics?

I usually wash my metal figures in water with a little detergent and scrub them with an old toothbrush.  Not so much to remove release agents, more to make sure that I get rid of all the "detritus" after prepping. 

Not sure if this would help acrylics adhere to bare metal?  As others seem to be using Chaos Black they might be able to answer.

[Mad Carew Snr]

Thankyou! It doesn't seem to be as sure a thing as enamels, but I'm new to acrylic so I'm learning! Some sort of varnish seems essential.

[keeper]

Some sort of varnish seems essential.

I couldn't possibly agree more - it is at least as important as an undercoat, which, frankly, is essential.  And to save OT having to do it again, I'll post his link on varnishing for him

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/orctrader/Articles/Varnish.html

Although I use a craft spray polyurethene varnish first, then Dullcoat lacquer (or sometimes Dullcoat spray) - the premise is the same.

With metal figures, quite a few casters use fine-grade talc as a release agent when they are casting, and this can affect an undercoat if not removed.  I find that avoiding too much handling before undercoat and a quick brush over with a large, dry, stiff-ish brush does the job for me and prevents most undercoating problems.  But there is nothing wrong with washing them, if that is what you want to do

[Orctrader]

...And to save OT having to do it again, I'll post his link on varnishing for him

Thanks.  You're a pal.   

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Go into your local art specialist shop.
Ask about black gesso, they will tell you the best one to get.
It may set you back, but it will be excellent quality. 

[Orctrader]

Go into your local art specialist shop.
Ask about black gesso, they will tell you the best one to get.
It may set you back, but it will be excellent quality. 

Thanks.  But...

...Have been experimenting with Liquitex Black Gesso but results have ranged from “excellent” to “disappointing.”

I have already been told that Liquitex is the "best."  It was expensive and the quality might be excellent.  But for me the results are a little bit "random."