Pinning questions

[Charlie_]

I'm relatively new to the world of pinning things....

Though I've been doing it with great success. I even have been pinning plastic sword blades and spear shafts into place! Surprised I pulled it off.

Yesterday a few little questions arose.....

1) The pin vice I have... Comes with two 'connecting thingies' inside it, each with two 'sockets'.... Irritatingly none of them are a perfect fit for the size drill bits I use the most. Either just too small to fit it in, or just a bit too loose so it wobbles free at times. This is the second one I bought, the first one was actually unusable for this reason. Anyone have any recommendations for a new one I can buy which will definitely have the appropriate fittings? Or can I buy a wider range of 'connecting thingies' separately?

2) Cutting wire pikes. I've been cutting a lot of these to length, but have recently realised doing is really messing up my cutters. My good ones are pretty much completely mangled by now. I tried my cheap ones but they aren't strong enough to cut them. Anyone got any tips - what do you use for clipping these really very tough bits of wire?

3) Pinning riders to horses... Do you guys normally bother pinning metal riders to metal horses? Or does just superglue do the job fine? I just did it to one special commander model I don't want to fall off his mount.... but it will be a real hassle doing it for every model when I later have a whole unit of metal cavalry (so far all my cavalry have been plastic). Same question goes for metal riders on plastic horses.

[Connectamabob]

1) I recommend the Tamiya brand pin vice. Lovely, nearly perfect piece of machining. The "connecting things" are called "collets", and on a decent pin vice they will flex to gab a wide range of bit sizes. Sounds like yours maybe uses moto-tool style collets. I have one like that, and while the handle was nice, the collets were pretty specific in what sizes they would take.

2) Sounds like you're maybe using nippers meant for electrical wire. 'S tricky, as these aren't always well marked as such, leading one to believe they're more general purpose than they are. They can look robust, but still be soft when confronted with steel wires. If you want to erase all doubt, look for nippers with a pantographing pivot. They may be sold as "mini bolt cutters" or like terminology. They'll be about the size of linesman's pliers, and they'll cut through anything. Like this sort of thing. Note: I don't have that specific brand/model, so that link is just for illustrative purposes. These are the ones I have, but they are apparently WAY more expensive in the UK than in the US (IIRC mine were around $17).

3) Depends on material and how much suface area the mating surfaces have. Mind you I'm an odd duck in that I avoid using superglue in general. For plastics, I use solvent cements, which eliminates the need to pin in any application. For metals and resin, I use epoxy (specifially, JB Weld), in which case whether I pin or not depends on the mating surface area to moment arm ratio. I'd have to see the specific models you're working with to say exactly what I'd do.

[AndrewBeasley]

Look for side cutters rather than clippers for the wire.

As for mounts and riders I've used superglue gel with lots of success - just give it time to set and do not bother with an accelerator.

[snitcythedog]

1.  If you want to avoid purchasing a new pin vise you could try to shim it.  Use some gaffer tape wrapped around the base of the bit.  Then use the vise.  It should create enough pressure to keep the bit in the collet. 

2.  The suggestion for a mini bolt cutter is sound.  I use a heavy pair of cutters to notch my spears where the cut should be, then I will hold the spear portion in a pair of pliers and bend the end back and forth until it breaks.  Not such a neat end but it cleans up with a file. 

3.  Pinning is a personal choice.  Do what works for you and remember how much the miniature will be handled.  Generally I tend to pin if the miniature will be actually used in games or if my transport case is likely to put pressure on the parts. 

Hope that helps.

Snitchy sends.

[Mindenbrush]

I have a Dremel and swopped the collet set up for a proper 3 jaw chuck, it is possible that the Dremel chuck will fit your pinvice.

For cutting wire spears I have a 49 year old pair of cutters taht I purchased when I started my Apprenticeship with BRitish Aircraft Corporation, not a single mark in the jaws despite cutting the wire that Front Rank supply.
I would suggest something like these https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B011IL41CC/ref=s9_acsd_top_hd_bw_b27DlXb_c_x_w?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-3&pf_rd_r=V2FG8MPB43E7Q3ZWAM9E&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=22125c6e-0321-5438-a7b5-3637ca08141a&pf_rd_i=1938981031

I dont pin riders to horses but as the rider is mounted on a steel rod, cocktail stick or BBQ skewer for painting purposes there is a hole where figure sits on the horse, then I drill a couple of small holes in the matching area on the horse and use Aradilte 2 part epoxy resin glue to stick the rider to the horse, the glue goes into the holes to form a key. I use the standard Araldite from Halfords, never had much luck with the 5 minute stuff.

[dadlamassu]

My tools are easily 45 years old.  I have three pin vices similar to these from Maplin



The side cutters I have are still unmarked and I inherited them from my father who had used them in WW2!

I seldom glue riders to mounts as a lot of my games are skirmish and I like to dismount the riders and have a foot equivalent for most of them.  So if they fall off easily they have holes drilled in the mount and a peg fitted in the rider so he/she reasonably secure.  Those I do glue on are stuck with UHU glue which is cheap and effective.  I seldom use superglue using UHU for most tasks.

[Hammers]

I am a bit puzzled as most hobby vices come with an asortment of collets, often stored in tha handle. For really small dimensions, > 0.5mm, I suggest you get mini drills which are tapered like so...



...which allow for a much better grip.

I suppose you use, as most people do, piano wire for shields. Spring steel like that really requires a tool like this...



..., i.e. a mini bolt cutter, as the metal is really tough. That's what I use.

I pin almost everything which are multipart, unless the fit between parts is wide, complex but snug. The minis are supposed to be handled after all...

[Charlie_]

Thanks for the in depth answers, looks like I'll go shopping for a few new tools!

A mini bolt cutter at the least (and I guess a new set of plastic cutters to replace the now mangled ones!).

Just thought of another pin vice related thing - I struggle to get the drill bits to sit perfectly straight. They are always off a little bit. It's never actually been a problem, but still...


The pin vice I currently have is like this. Two collets, the spare one stored in the handle. As you can see, just four options, which doesn't cover all the drill bit sizes I want.



Searching on amazon now, I'm spoilt for choice. I'm looking at ones with 'keyless chuck' - is that what I want?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/JTENG-Precision-Model-Mirco-keyless/dp/B01FW197P0/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1496248201&sr=8-12&keywords=pin+vice
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drillpro-Aluminum-0-1-3-5mm-0-8mm-2-2mm-Woodworking/dp/B018VT7UMC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1496248201&sr=8-4&keywords=pin+vice


As for pinning horses, I'm obviously using plastic cement for plastic-on-plastic, which is no problem, it's just the metal riders (on either plastic or metal horses) that I'm querying. I don't really like the idea of having to pin these if unnecessary, as gettting the holes to line up so the rider sits in the right place seems like a irritating hassle.
Perhaps I should look into this superglue gel?

[Mindenbrush]

The Dremel chuck is the same as the Keyless one and takes most sizes that you might need.

To keep riders up straight or even to help hold weapons in place whilst the Araldite cures I use Bluetack.

[Connectamabob]

I struggle to get the drill bits to sit perfectly straight. They are always off a little bit. It's never actually been a problem, but still...

This is a product of sloppy machining in the pin vice's manufacturing. If the slits that allow the collet to tighten and grip the bit were not cut straight, then the bit will "center" crookedly when gripped.

I experienced this problem with every pin vice I had until I finally decided to stop buying the cheap ones.

The pin vice I currently have is like this. Two collets, the spare one stored in the handle. As you can see, just four options, which doesn't cover all the drill bit sizes I want.

Each of those collet sizes should be able to clamp down to a range of sizes, the smallest overlapping with the largest of the next collet size down. Either your pin vice is improperly made/designed so there is a gap between collet sizes, or you're misunderstanding how it works, and thinking the collets are suppose to fit the bits precisely when untightened.

Searching on amazon now, I'm spoilt for choice. I'm looking at ones with 'keyless chuck' - is that what I want?

Pin vises with a keyless chuck will be bulkier and depending on how they're made, they may also have problems with bits loosening (cheap Chinese or Indian tools will sometimes have reversed threads for some reason). They are, however, simpler to use. Whether it's what you want is a matter of personal preference.

A Dremel chuck won't work on your existing handle. I tried that with my own pin vises back in the day (before I broke down and bought a proper pin vise), and the Dremel chuck requires not only compatible threads, but also the handle having the right inside diameter w/ a tapered choke. If you have a drill press and a few other tools, you could DIY a handle for a Dremel chuck out of a piece of aluminum rod, but IMO there's no reason to when there are pre-made pin vises with similar chucks already available.

As for pinning horses, I'm obviously using plastic cement for plastic-on-plastic, which is no problem, it's just the metal riders (on either plastic or metal horses) that I'm querying. I don't really like the idea of having to pin these if unnecessary, as gettting the holes to line up so the rider sits in the right place seems like a irritating hassle.
Perhaps I should look into this superglue gel?

Use epoxy. With epoxy you can make the holes larger than the pin to give yourself as much positioning room as you need, and the epoxy will fill in that extra space and solidify as hard (or harder than, depending on brand) as plastic. Superglue gell won't do that, as it shrinks too much as it cures, and produces a weaker bond when mating surfaces are not a flush fit.

[Charlie_]

Either your pin vice is improperly made/designed so there is a gap between collet sizes, or you're misunderstanding how it works, and thinking the collets are suppose to fit the bits precisely when untightened.

It's the former. There is a gap in sizes between one of them at its tightest and the next smallest at its loosest.

Use epoxy. With epoxy you can make the holes larger than the pin to give yourself as much positioning room as you need, and the epoxy will fill in that extra space and solidify as hard (or harder than, depending on brand) as plastic. Superglue gell won't do that, as it shrinks too much as it cures, and produces a weaker bond when mating surfaces are not a flush fit.

Ah, good plan!

[Connectamabob]

Yep, that's part of why I use JB-Weld for metal and small resin parts. The other being it's tough as nails and about as permanent as you could ever hope for in any glue. You will never, ever, ever have anything break or come apart with that stuff.

it's also better than GS or other putties for making stuff like spear heads and sword blades around wire. It bonds to the wire much better, so you can carve it really thin and it won't delaminate from the wire. Lets you make properly in-scale looking weapons without sacrificing durability.

[Hammers]

 (cheap Chinese or Indian tools will sometimes have reversed threads for some reason).

I was told that's because how they do it south of the equator. Because earth rotates the other way around down there. It's a science thing, apparently.

[Hammers]

Use epoxy. With epoxy you can make the holes larger than the pin to give yourself as much positioning room as you need, and the epoxy will fill in that extra space and solidify as hard (or harder than, depending on brand) as plastic. Superglue gell won't do that, as it shrinks too much as it cures, and produces a weaker bond when mating surfaces are not a flush fit.

Indeed.

[Plynkes]

I was told that's because how they do it south of the equator. Because earth rotates the other way around down there. It's a science thing, apparently.

That might be an interesting theory to investigate, were it not for the case that both China and India are both squarely in the Northern Hemisphere, just like us.  


I only pin conversions - new arms, heads, bodies etc. Not items carried by the figures. I'd rather the weak point to be the glue, for if they break off at the glue join it's much easier to fix than if the item itself (or the arm carrying it) actually breaks or bends (which is more likely if they are pinned).