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Author Topic: British Tank Markings - A Guide  (Read 23619 times)

Offline SquireBev

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British Tank Markings - A Guide
« on: June 23, 2020, 11:10:52 AM »
https://tank-markings.blogspot.com/


New link: http://www.uk-tank-markings.co.uk/

For the past few weeks I've been working on a guide to British Tank and vehicle markings - particular the arcane system of colours and numbers used for Arm of Service markings.

With help from people on other forums and social media I've been able to track down enough sources to come up with a vaguely coherent overview of the systems used throughout the war.



Apologies if this breaks any rules about shameless self promotion, but I'm hoping the usefulness of the resource outweighs any potential distaste!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 08:04:21 PM by SquireBev »

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2020, 11:46:44 AM »
Excellent stuff!  I've been meaning to do something similar for ages, but it's a hell of a lot of work and I've only finished bits and pieces on the Poles, Tank Bdes, Burma and the Dutch & Belgian Brigades.  Well done for having the stamina for such a large project! :)
Suffering from insomnia?  Too much excitement in your life?  Jemima Fawr's Miniature Wargames Blog might be just the solution you've been looking for: www.jemimafawr.co.uk

Offline Fitz

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2020, 09:24:00 PM »
Thanks so much. I've been floundering about with British tank markings, and this is going to be a great help.

Offline ultimatewargamer

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2020, 03:42:46 AM »
Just excellent work. A great help. Thanks Barry

Offline fred

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2020, 06:51:48 AM »
A great resource - I did a couple of pages showing something similar but just for NW Europe - so hats off for covering the whole war.

A couple of little suggestions for improvements - perhaps some info about sizes, and locations of markings - and these probably need to be typical locations as there was a fair bit of variation.


Offline SquireBev

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2020, 08:15:03 AM »
A couple of little suggestions for improvements - perhaps some info about sizes, and locations of markings - and these probably need to be typical locations as there was a fair bit of variation.

Good idea - I'll see what I can do.

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2020, 03:51:12 PM »
If you're up for some additional stuff, I've got the Dutch & Belgian Brigades here:

http://www.fireandfury.com/orbats/latedutchbelgorbat.pdf

And Burma stuff here (7th Armoured Brigade, 50th Indian Tank Brigade, 254th Indian Tank Brigade, 255th Indian Tank Brigade and other bits and pieces):

http://www.fireandfury.com/painting/burmaarmypaintingguide.pdf

Something I'd add is that after Normandy a general order went out to independent brigades to change their serials to the same as Armoured Divisions (i.e. 50-54 on a red square).  However, that order was only partially obeyed.  33rd Armoured Brigade definitely did so.  6th Guards Armoured Brigade also followed the order, but added the white 'Army Troops' bar across the bottom.  31st Tanks didn't follow the order, as they'd already been transferred to 79th Armoured Division and 30th Armoured Brigade (Sherman Crabs) was already using that scheme.  34th Tanks just disregarded the order and kept the same markings to the end of the war.

A lot of the formation signs were also slightly different when painted on vehicles, as opposed to when worn as a uniform badge.  For example, the 1st Polish Armoured Division painted its divisional sign on an upright white rectangle, though when worn as a badge if was like your version, without the white backing.

2nd Polish Armoured Brigade had a formation sign, but never painted it on tanks.  It was only painted on support vehicles and worn as a uniform badge. 

6th Guards Tank Brigade tanks carried the 2nd Army (light blue cross on white shield with downward-pointing sword) shield in addition to their own brigade shield.

8th Armoured Brigade painted its fox-head badge in a yellow rectangle immediately above the serial number, rather than as a separate (circular) sign.  The circular version was worn as a uniform badge, however.

22nd Armoured Brigade of 7th Armoured Division had its own brigade sign of a red stag's head on white rectangle, that was painted immediately above the unit serial.  They also then painted the 7th Armoured Division sign in the usual place.

31st Tank Brigade's serials should have the diagonal stripe coming from the opposite corners (top-left to bottom-right), indicating Army Group Troops (bottom-left to top-right indicates Lines of Communication Troops).  If it's any consolation, I painted my own Churchills wrong! :) There should also be a break in the stripe so that it doesn't obscure the serial number.  I've shown them on here: http://www.jemimafawr.co.uk/2020/04/23/churchill-tanks-in-nw-europe-1944-45-part-2/

33rd Armoured Brigade painted a fine white line around its green & black 'diablo' sign. 

You could also add 1st Czechoslovak Armoured Brigade Group to your list.  They landed at the end of the Normandy Campaign and spent the rest of the war besieging the German garrison of Dunkirk.  Their formation sign was a 'square' chequered shield, which was divided into nine red & light blue squares (light blue in the corners and central square, the others red), superimposed with a white heraldic lion rampant and edged in white.  There was a very small heraldic shield on the lion's chest.  This was often painted in white outline only, without the red & blue bits.  Serials were as for the Armoured Brigade of an Armoured Division (50 to 54 on red squares), plus 45 on green-over-blue for the recce squadron, 41 on cobalt blue for the engineer squadron, and red-over-blue for the artillery elements - 73 for the AA Troop, 74 for the Field Arty Regt and 77 for the AT Bty.

I hope this helps.  You really have done a fantastic job! :)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 03:54:08 PM by Jemima Fawr »

Offline SquireBev

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2020, 06:55:52 PM »
Blimey, that's a lot of useful info!

I can definitely make use of the Dutch & Belgian Brigades and the Burma stuff to produce another set of diagrams, if you're happy for me to do so.

I'll see about adding the Army badge to the 6th Guards Tank brigade's info box too - I've been meaning to make a start on the Corps and Army badges anyway so it's as good a reason as any! I'll sort out the other brigade badges according to your info too - very useful stuff.

As for the Czechs, I was going to add them from the start but chickened out when it came to drawing their badge. All the others I've either drawn from scratch as they're basic geometric shapes, or traced from photos if they're a bit more complex, but the Czechs' badge had me beat.

I've also had a request from another forum to add a section about Royal Artillery markings too, so that's next on the to-do list.

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2020, 07:18:47 PM »
Tidy!  Please do copy anything you like.  I don't envy you having to draw any of them, to be honest.

I've got a load of RA battery marking information here somewhere, if you're interested.  Don't think I've got anything specific on AT or AA batteries though, sadly.  However, the basic battery marking scheme was largely the same throughout the RA, RCA, etc.

Oh stand by on the Burma one though - I've just noticed that the version on the site is v1.4 and the one on my computer is v1.8!  So wait for the new version to be posted - I'll send it off to the website owner now.

Some more info on 2nd Polish Armoured Brigade - from late July/early August 1944, when they switched from arid camouflage to olive-drab, they also changed the squadron sign designs.  The geometric shapes were the same as normal, with the following embellishments:

4th 'Skorpion' Armoured Regt had a scorpion (painted in black with white details) interwoven diagonally through the (red) squadron signs. 

1st Krechowiecki Lancers had a horse's head in white or yellow silhouette within the (yellow) squadron signs, sometimes with a white horseshoe 'hooked' over the bottom of the squadron sign. 

6th 'Children of Lwow' Armoured Regiment then had white squadron signs instead of the regulation light blue signs and had a yellow lion rampant painted within each sign.  They had regulation light blue squadron signs before the summer re-paint.

They were so boring up until that point...  :D  They also had a penchant for BIG tank names.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 07:31:47 PM by Jemima Fawr »

Offline SquireBev

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2020, 08:04:21 PM »
Oh lord. More complicated drawing.

I've fixed the flashes for the 31st Tank Brigade anyway: https://tank-markings.blogspot.com/p/independent-armoured-brigades.html

I'll see what I else I can fit in during slow spells at work tomorrow.

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2020, 08:06:47 PM »
Oh lord. More complicated drawing.

I've fixed the flashes for the 31st Tank Brigade anyway: https://tank-markings.blogspot.com/p/independent-armoured-brigades.html

I'll see what I else I can fit in during slow spells at work tomorrow.
Sorry!  lol  Yeah, they didn't paint up their formation sign, but they're probably unique in having weird-bothered squadron signs (after July 1944 anyway).

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2020, 08:13:55 PM »
Oh lord. More complicated drawing.

I've fixed the flashes for the 31st Tank Brigade anyway: https://tank-markings.blogspot.com/p/independent-armoured-brigades.html

I'll see what I else I can fit in during slow spells at work tomorrow.
Ooo… There's also the thorny subject of regimental transfers between brigades and subsequent reshuffles...  :'(

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2020, 08:14:23 PM »
I'm remembering why I never progressed with this project...  ;)

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2020, 08:26:08 PM »
I've dug out some photos that show tanks from 4th and 8th Armoured Brigades with the new standard 50-53 serials in 1945, so they clearly adopted the order at some point between Normandy and Germany (33rd Armoured Brigade changed its serials before October 1944, when they were photographed with the new markings at 's-Hertogenbosch).  I don't have any info on their respective Motor Battalions though, so don't know if they adopted the 54 serial or kept their old serials.

Offline SquireBev

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Re: British Tank Markings - A Guide
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2020, 08:32:49 AM »
Ah yes, that's a rabbit hole I haven't yet dared go down. I'm hoping the pile of books I've amassed over the last couple of months will have all the info, but as for turning it into a coherent picture for the website... ever feel like you've bitten off more than you can chew?

Speaking of which, I've been wondering about getting into decal printing. Now I've done all this design work on the markings it seems a shame not to put it to some practical use.

 

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