Eastern renaissance

[Doom Beard 78]

Many moons ago I collected and painted a 28mm TAG Polish army for the 17th century. The army slowly nears completion . I now find myself contemplating rules. The army had been collected for Warhammer ECW using The Deluge fan supplement. But, try as I might, I could find not persuade any of the gamers I know to try them.

Since, then I have read Pike and Shotte , which left me cold, Tercio( which seemed overly drawn out) Father Tilley( which seems to require vast numbers of figures and is nigh on incomprehensible) 1644 and For King and Parliament. Thus far FKAP seems the most promising and I have seen an Eastern variant. However, the rules require a grid and I am reluctant to splash out the cash for a game mat.

So,  the question is are there any 28mm viable , non grid rules for the period.

I had played FOG:Am and they were not for me, so I hope that no one suggests the FOG:R variant.

[Battle Brush Sigur]

First off - sounds like a great project. I'm sure the army will look splendid on the table!

Now as for rules:
Well, there's always Fields of Gl... okay, okay.

I heard good things about For King and Parliament. Grids on wargames tables don't necessarily have to be a problem. We played Rommel (which uses a grid as well) a while ago on our regular gaming table. What we did was use small markers to depict the corners of the squares/rectangles. You can either use small round stickers or washers with a tuft of grass on top or something like that. A bit more work to set up than just getting a griddy map of coure, but it worked rather well for us and has less of a visual impact than drawn-up grids.

Aaaaanyway, here are some suggestions of mine:
Baroque (based on Impetus) - Covers 16th and 17th century, works as intended, several army lists with points and all available.
In Deo Veritas - A rather new set of rules by Helion. Covers the 17th century. Pretty fast to play, detail can be added via modifiers and so on, but in general unit classifications are pretty broad. I just wrote a review: https://www.tabletopstories.net/language/en/2020/07/in-deo-veritas-rules-review/
Twilight of Divine Right - Released in 2019, covers 1618-1660 (ish) in particular, but there's enough wiggle room to add some decades in the front and in the back of that timeframe. More detailled, but really good period feel. Review and Battle reports here: https://www.tabletopstories.net/language/en/?s=twilight. Thing is that the rules are very much scenario based, and while there are three scenario books out now, these only cover the thirty years war, the english civil war, and (to a lesser extent) wars on the Spanish peninsular. Adapting the rules for Eastern conflicts in and around Poland shouldn't be too hard though.

Tilly's Very Bad Day (free to download) also aims to be a fast-play set of rules. Haven't tried it yet, but intend to. The author is very active on his blog, developing ideas and asking for feedback. I think adapations for Polish affairs have been talked about on his blog.

Then there's By Fire and Sword of course. Which covers exactly what you wanna do (I assume). Aimed at 15mm figures of course, but I'm sure it can be adapted.


In case you're open for skirmishing (~60-100 figures a side), I suggest Forged in Blood by Ganesha Games or of course Sharp Practice2 (there's a 17th century variant in one of the Lardies specials).

[Pan Marek]

Have you looked at "By Fire and Sword"?   They were written for the eastern renaissance.   

[Marine0846]

How about "Pikemen's Lament."
Fast and fun.

[tallyho]

I'd still recommend pike and Shotte.

Very fast, good games, and you can really tinker with the unit stat lines. If you were going to use warhammer then they are the closest anyway.

[fastolfrus]

By Fire and Sword are great, you would need to increase ranges, but the easiest thing is to check your base size against the recommended one and increase in proportion.

Surprisingly, for a Polish centred game, Winged Hussars do not feature heavily in the army lists.
Army lists are not like most games, there are no individual points for figures, or even units, you choose a strength level and the army list shows you which units you get. You can customise it by adding extra troops to some units or adding in optional units or upgrading unit quality, but it works quite nicely and gives fairly balanced forces. Also the strength level you choose does not need to match your opponent, you can choose 5 or 6 points and find you are facing a 12 point horde.
The game is scenario driven, in most scenarios the big force attacks, but in some the small force is the attacker....
 

[jcspqr]

I would recommend you have another shot of absinthe and rethink your pike ad shotte phobia.  It is a very playable set of rules.

[anton ryzbak]

Let me throw my two cents into the ring in favor of Pikemans Lament for skirmish games and Tercio (the version from Magister Militium) for larger battles. Tercio is rather densely written; there are a LOT of rules covered in those few pages but they play fairly quickly and, because the play alternates between the players, nobody is sitting and watching the other guy complete his moves. My group has played a fair many games using it (most much larger than the size envisioned by the rules-writer) and we can usually get done in under three hours. Take a look a a few of our battle AARs to see what the rules look like in action;  https://epicureanwars.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

[Atheling]

Hi George,

There was the By Fire and Sword rule set, mean't mainly for 15 mil but could be used for 28's if you convert distances etc. It does seem to concentrate on the 'eastern'. I've never had the pleasure so it might be worth checking out some reviews(?)

By Fire and Sword Homepage:
http://www.fireandsword.wargamer.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=58

I noticed that they have a forum link on their website which might give you a better idea of the game mechanics?

Hope this helps matey

[Doom Beard 78]

Thanks for the suggestions.  The hardest part is finding guys to game against.
At the rate I am going I may just have to collect a TAG Ottoman army and provide both armies

Are Pikemens Lament based on Dragon Rampant? I played it a few times but it failed to click with me, seemed a very random sort of game

[Atheling]

Thanks for the suggestions.  The hardest part is finding guys to game against.
At the rate I am going I may just have to collect a TAG Ottoman army and provide both armies

You should! Then, when the coast is clear I can jump on a train and we can get some Early Renaissance games in. I'll be gagging to roll some dice by then! 

Are Pikemens Lament based on Dragon Rampant? I played it a few times but it failed to click with me, seemed a very random sort of game

Yes, they employ the same basic rule mechanics. I thought Lion Rampant and Dragon Rampant along with The Men Who Would Be Kings a really good fun set of rules. Fun being the basic premise.

I do know what you mean about the feel of the rules not being quite right for a historical period (fun though they are). The Dragon Rampant games we played were hilarious and I did really enjoy the experience.

[Doom Beard 78]

realistically an Ottoman project would start next year. I already have painted Akinci and Delhi horse , plus i did paint a few janissaries.

 

[Atheling]

realistically an Ottoman project would start next year. I already have painted Akinci and Delhi horse , plus i did paint a few janissaries.

I can wait 

I have no idea when it will actually be safe for me to venture outdoors again..... 

[Doom Beard 78]

I found a thread on a forum elsewhere where people had adapted Fire and Sword to 28mm, it just requires a large table.  Some years ago. before I grew the beard of doom, i was at SALUTE and the chaps from Fire and Sword ran me through a game which I recall I quite enjoyed. They were adamant that the rules only worked in 15mm, I suspect that as they were selling their own range of 15mm figures that they had a salesman's interest in saying that.

I shall investigate further.

[Atheling]

I found a thread on a forum elsewhere where people had adapted Fire and Sword to 28mm

Which would be?

Some years ago. before I grew the beard of doom, i was at SALUTE and the chaps from Fire and Sword ran me through a game which I recall I quite enjoyed. They were adamant that the rules only worked in 15mm, I suspect that as they were selling their own range of 15mm figures that they had a salesman's interest in saying that.

They do have their own range of mini's. They were actually really nice considering they are 15 mil.

I shall investigate further.

Cool. Let me know what the forum is named please mate and I will take a peek too.