Custom shield decals?

[Fremitus Borealis]

I found this online.  It gives essentially the same information as Jeff does, just differently.  It might help if you’re not sure about the process.

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/07/tutorial-custom-decal-sheets-2.html

Thanks. At this point I think the part I'm most unsure of is the making of the decal sheet itself... but it's always good to have multiple perspectives.

[wmyers]

Thanks. At this point I think the part I'm most unsure of is the making of the decal sheet itself... but it's always good to have multiple perspectives.

You mean in the photo editing program itself?

I’m not sure which program you’re using, but you should be able to make a work sheet/canvas in the size of the printer decal paper.  Then set up some lines the distance apart you have measured the size of the shield face you want the decal to be and enlarge/reduce the image to fit.

Print off a test sheet in black and white on regular paper so you can cut it out and see if it fits.  Adjust as necessary and try some more test prints until you get them the right size.

[WillieB]

Actually you don't even need a dedicated printer.
Print out your decals on regular paper and take it to the nearest copy shop with a good laser colour copier. Bring your LASER decal sheets with you and they'll gladly print them out for you.
I would suggest doing a few test prints on regular paper first and preferably in colour once you got the size correct. Laser printers tone colours down a bit.

[Fremitus Borealis]

You mean in the photo editing program itself?

I’m not sure which program you’re using, but you should be able to make a work sheet/canvas in the size of the printer decal paper.  Then set up some lines the distance apart you have measured the size of the shield face you want the decal to be and enlarge/reduce the image to fit.

Print off a test sheet in black and white on regular paper so you can cut it out and see if it fits.  Adjust as necessary and try some more test prints until you get them the right size.

Yeah, I have basically no experience at all with things like Photoshop. I downloaded a program called "Inkscape" that is similar I guess, but there's still the learning curve factor. Funny enough, I've been watching a bunch of YouTube videos on making custom decals and I think I am pretty good on how to edit the images individually, it's just making the lines for the template that's giving me fits 

[wmyers]

Some programs may not have all the features of others.  There’s a reason photoshop is so popular and expensive. 

GIMP is a very popular free alternative.

Do a search for free alternatives for photoshop.

[Fremitus Borealis]

Some programs may not have all the features of others.  There’s a reason photoshop is so popular and expensive. 

GIMP is a very popular free alternative.

Do a search for free alternatives for photoshop.

Yeah I have GIMP as well as Inkscape. I've gotten to the point tonight where I am drawing in guidelines to a sheet (to hopefully be able to plunk in my shield designs later... I will probably edit those in GIMP?), but I have a feeling I'll later find out there's a much easier and quicker way than what I'm doing.

[Jjonas]

Software:
GIMP is an adequate substitute for PhotoShop (I have an old version of PS and it still works so that's great).

There are a number things that make things work best (PS techniques).

Use layers to keep things separated.

Make you own grid guidelines that can be greyed back on a bottom or top layer which can be locked.

You can make a template guide of the shield outline on another layer if you need it- usually the grid is good enough.

Test print your grid in BW and make sure it aligns with your shields. You can either draw around them, or hold them up to a light and shadow judge them with the paper.

Build you basic art designs in separate files. For example you might want colored surrounds in one file, and symbols in another. That way you have a whole list of your high res images outside the printable document.

In PS use "Place" image (or it may be called embed now) to bring in your designs. Place them as "smart objects" then scale them to fit your grid. You can then repeat and copy and paste duplicates.

The good part of using "smart objects" is that if you decide to update a symbol then you only need to update the original art. Then when you update or re open your PS document the changes magically update.

All this may sound complicated- because it is. But the rewards are high if you learn the tricks.

Properly sprayed and protected home brewed decals are just as sturdy and workable as many  commercial versions. Plus you have control of the design if you need fifty similar ones. I have a big issue getting my LBMS two part system ones to work for me- I reckon that is because I'm a clutz. So I prefer the old school dip them then align them then if needed use some setting solution.

http://www.ancientbattles.com/HeroesOfGreece/hoplite_decals_transfers_jjonas/Creating%20a%20transfer%20set.jpg
http://www.ancientbattles.com/HeroesOfGreece/hoplite_decals_transfers_jjonas/Place%20and%20scale.jpg

[Fremitus Borealis]

Software:
GIMP is an adequate substitute for PhotoShop (I have an old version of PS and it still works so that's great).

There are a number things that make things work best (PS techniques).

Use layers to keep things separated.

Make you own grid guidelines that can be greyed back on a bottom or top layer which can be locked.

You can make a template guide of the shield outline on another layer if you need it- usually the grid is good enough.

Test print your grid in BW and make sure it aligns with your shields. You can either draw around them, or hold them up to a light and shadow judge them with the paper.

Build you basic art designs in separate files. For example you might want colored surrounds in one file, and symbols in another. That way you have a whole list of your high res images outside the printable document.

In PS use "Place" image (or it may be called embed now) to bring in your designs. Place them as "smart objects" then scale them to fit your grid. You can then repeat and copy and paste duplicates.

The good part of using "smart objects" is that if you decide to update a symbol then you only need to update the original art. Then when you update or re open your PS document the changes magically update.

All this may sound complicated- because it is. But the rewards are high if you learn the tricks.

Properly sprayed and protected home brewed decals are just as sturdy and workable as many  commercial versions. Plus you have control of the design if you need fifty similar ones. I have a big issue getting my LBMS two part system ones to work for me- I reckon that is because I'm a clutz. So I prefer the old school dip them then align them then if needed use some setting solution.

http://www.ancientbattles.com/HeroesOfGreece/hoplite_decals_transfers_jjonas/Creating%20a%20transfer%20set.jpg
http://www.ancientbattles.com/HeroesOfGreece/hoplite_decals_transfers_jjonas/Place%20and%20scale.jpg

Yeah, I hear ya. There's something to be said for "paying your dues" with annoying stuff to get the satisfying payoff at the end. I've spent all my free time today on these computer shenanigans instead of painting, alas, but here's hoping it'll be worth it!

By the way Jeff, if it's not giving away any trade secrets or anything (  ), mind if I ask what size you tend to scale your shield decals to? I've measured every shield and [hoplite/phalangite] shield I have, and I'm getting a range of between 11mm and 13mm.

[wmyers]

I don’t want to take away from your question to Jeff, but I found this tutorial which would be comparable to making decals for Carthage’s allies like Numidians.

https://mitchwargaming.blogspot.com/2013/03/pictish-shields.html?m=1

[Jjonas]

That's an excellent other process. Using a bitmap editor to scan into vector is a very useful technique. You can convert rasters to vectors in Photoshop as well but it is actual work.

Having a program like Inkscape is a boost to find, as Adobe Illustrator (my preferred bitmap to vector conversion tool is very expensive).

Having vectors as the placed or embedded smart objects work just as well as rasters- depending on your output. For example for hoplite shields at 10-12mm design radius and my 300 dpi home printer- there isn't too much better resolution to be squeezed out from a 512x512 pixel smart object.

Obviously if these were intended for higher definition, or maybe to be used for 54-60mm figures then I would be investing my time in vectors. But I haven't tried it for those scales as yet.

[Fremitus Borealis]

Thanks for that link, Wmyers! Combining that with Jeff's will be really helpful.

I think I'm starting to "get the hang" of the creation aspect, if nothing else so far. I've got about 20 different designs that pass the "eyeball test", and might end up mixing decently with what I have already... though probably better mixed in with ones I hand paint than with my LBMS ones, at least for now 

[wmyers]

That’s awesome!

I was glancing through the LBMS site and noted the first decals that were done were only 4 designs repeated 3 times. Or was it 3 repeated 4 times?

As the years went by (each set has a copyright year) they progressively get better, more detailed, battle damage and shading are added.

I’d love to see his tutorial for how to create the initial template for the shield size.

It’s probably a lot easier than one may initially think.

Then copy and paste the template 12 times and place the art in the template. 

I noted the ripped surface showing boards underneath is reused in various sizes.  Once you create a cut or tear or splatter, just copy and paste and resize and rotate as needed. 

With some practice you could potentially make designs to sell.

[Fremitus Borealis]

That’s awesome!

I was glancing through the LBMS site and noted the first decals that were done were only 4 designs repeated 3 times. Or was it 3 repeated 4 times?

As the years went by (each set has a copyright year) they progressively get better, more detailed, battle damage and shading are added.

I’d love to see his tutorial for how to create the initial template for the shield size.

It’s probably a lot easier than one may initially think.

Then copy and paste the template 12 times and place the art in the template. 

I noted the ripped surface showing boards underneath is reused in various sizes.  Once you create a cut or tear or splatter, just copy and paste and resize and rotate as needed. 

With some practice you could potentially make designs to sell.

You know, I hadn't really thought about that last point, but it's true. Hell, see my first post in this thread! Jeff is right that this process can be such a pain the "payoff" at the end will be great.....but a lot of people aren't going to have the time or inclination to spend on it. Admittedly, I've had the thought multiple times in the last week as I'm fiddling at my computer trying to figure out these damnable programs (or watching YouTube videos thereto) like, "You know, you really should be painting right now..."

So maybe in the long-term, selling some transfers for beer money could be an idea  There's obviously not a huge market for this, but I would imagine a small cadre of folks would really appreciate it.

I would definitely want to get better at the "art" aspect first, though. So far what I've mostly been doing is combining/modifying images I've found on the interwebs, kind of like Jeff describes on his site about homebrewed transfers. I'd imagine there would be a few legal hangups over intellectual property of anything that isn't from, say, a Greek black figure pot, and rightfully so!

Anyway, one thing I am kind of excited about though is that this is letting me indulge one of the things that get me interested in the Macedonian/Successors period in the first place: the syncretism of various cultures during the Hellenistic age! Sure there may be no evidence for it, but I love the thought of a unit of phalangites with a shields bearing the image of Zoroaster or the 8-pointed Wheel of Buddhism surrounded by a Greek key pattern.

What's funny though is I keep catching myself thinking "I need to make more so they're not all the same!!", when in fact the wargaming standard seems to be perfectly fine with whole units having the exact same shield pattern, even when it was unlikely historically

[wmyers]

Yeah, I’ve noted that Macedonians and Successors have uniform shield designs.  I’m not sure the historical validity of that. I’ve just taken it for granted that is accurate without any independent research. 

I too have been looking at shield designs.  Some good ones seem to have been done for video games like Total War.

Warlord used to sell the Immortal hoplite decal sheet that was a very good deal.

https://www.warlordgames.com/webstore-greek-hoplite-shield-designs-transfers/

[Fremitus Borealis]

Yeah, I’ve noted that Macedonians and Successors have uniform shield designs.  I’m not sure the historical validity of that. I’ve just taken it for granted that is accurate without any independent research. 

The most recent info I've read/heard is that outside of elite units like hypaspists, Silver Shields, Praetorian Guard, etc., most ancient armies would have been quite a bit more "irregular" than you might expect. Wargaming from what I've noticed seems to owe more to Napoleonic and later era standardization than anything.

I too have been looking at shield designs.  Some good ones seem to have been done for video games like Total War.

Yeah I've actually nabbed a few screenshots from some old Rome: Total War mods of some of my favorite units

Warlord used to sell the Immortal hoplite decal sheet that was a very good deal.
https://www.warlordgames.com/webstore-greek-hoplite-shield-designs-transfers/

Ah yeah, I recognize some of those My first ever box of Warlord hoplites (which were actually Immortal... says so on the sprue!) came with a sheet of those. I think it had all the ones that are just black or white.