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Author Topic: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920  (Read 14994 times)

former user

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Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« on: September 02, 2009, 09:03:50 AM »
Hello there

I desperately need to know how the russian railway carriages were painted at the dawn of tsarist empire
not the armoured trains, but the civilan stuff

passenger, stock, flat, boxcars, etc everything

are there any colour pictures or does anyone know???
please help

Online OSHIROmodels

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 12:08:06 PM »
Have a read of this, I haven't had time to (lunch break at work) but there might be something in there. There is a piccy of some carridges crossing a bridge that might give you an idea of style (the pictures are in black and white though). The station mistress is someone you wouldn't want to mess with  lol

http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r091.html

Hope it's a help

cheers

James
cheers

James

https://www.oshiromodels.co.uk/

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former user

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 12:20:11 PM »
yep

irina balshovna, our "man" in vladivostok

thanks, I knew the site
the two trains shown are typical, the earlier style which you find almost everywhere before 1900, and the manchurian express with the later imported Pullman coaches though I can't recognise if there is a closed vestibule
the pullmanns would be the typical coffee colour, but this is typical for luxury coaches to keep the manufacturers' marking
the steam engine is also a rather later 1910 one

the transsiberian is very special, and I am looking for the rather general colouring of everyday trains

but thank You anyway, I shall read the text since I forgot the site

Offline 1ngram

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 12:50:22 PM »
Lots of colours is the correct answer to this question.  I model Russian railways circa 1918 in H0 and the lack of basic information is often quite annoying.

Coaches were coloured differently in different railways and often between different classes of coaches on the same railway so 1st class coach would be a different colour from a 3rd class coach on the same train.  I suspect illiteracy was a spur to ensuring as much differentiation as possible, like the coloured bands that early British trams had.

However if you want to portray coaches in Siberia its a little easier as there are a couple of excellent colour photographs from the beginning of the century in the Library of Congress photograph collection (available on the Net). The coaches are somewhere between buff and tan coloured.  Look up their collection and you will find a pile of photos of the railway and its environs from 1902.

Wagons seem to have been bauxite red although sometimes this looks almost black.  There are lots and lots of photos (in b&w) on the net of russian 4 wheel closed wagons usually found looking for RCW or WW1 photos.  It took me a long time to decipher what the various markings on russian closed wagons meant but I can tell you what they are as well if you want to depict them too.  Later US imported bogie wagons seem to have had markings only rarely and I have assumed they were painted bauxite/red too.  Oil tank wagons - white/grey is all I have been able to determine from repainted surviving vehicles.

If you want more detail or references contact me offline. I can send you what photos and links I have

However Russian modelling magazines depict wagons in bauxite red on ovvasion

former user

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 01:09:59 PM »
lucky me to find a fellow sufferer   ;)
I'll surely contact you, thank you very much
it is elnightening to find out that it is not due to poor research that I couldn't find much

so, colour marking for passenger car classes is fairly common in period 1b and 2
bauxite red would be the same colour as the DRG in germany
so either it was copied or it is because the colour pigment was necesary for some reason

buff and tan is interesing
thank you very much

Offline Prof.Witchheimer

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 01:12:37 PM »
you can try it here too, thousands of pics of old (a bit) and modern (a lot) stuff.

http://www.train-photo.ru

especially the engines:

http://www.train-photo.ru/categories.php?cat_id=7&sessionid=e178f04554efe0f4b6f69b2c0ced6690

former user

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2009, 01:18:24 PM »
спасибо

do you know anything about the Tsar's train(s) ??

Offline Prof.Witchheimer

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 01:28:43 PM »
пожалуйста

some nice infos about:

http://www.petervestnik.ru/index.php?newsid=174

are you able to read russian?

former user

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 01:29:12 PM »
подмога
I can't read russian....

could you please link me to the old trains....

yes, the steam engines
well, the colurful painting was usually only at delivery or on special anniversaries (or museum as in this case)

the work livery was black with the wheels etc in red or green against rust
later also in black - so more something for luxury trains, which from the streamline era on could be enameled

Ha! found something
terrace carriage from the Tsar's train:
http://www.deutsches-museum.de/it/biblioteca/unsere-schaetze/technikgeschichte/eisenbahnbilder/terassenwagen/
« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 09:01:38 AM by bedwyr »

Offline Prof.Witchheimer

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2009, 09:23:32 AM »
more to the colours of the Tzar's train - dark blue, with golden edges, roof - light grey, waggon undercarriage - black with some gold on the edges, window frames - teak wood, between the windows - the famous russian two-headed eagles.

former user

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2009, 09:26:36 AM »
yes

very fruitful thread
we are getting closer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borki_train_disaster
thank you

any pics on the above ::)

Offline Prof.Witchheimer

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2009, 09:43:12 AM »
finally found a pic of the waggon (unfortunately only a small one) and some of the interior.

former user

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 09:44:58 AM »
you are a god!

we get into railway fever here ;)

check out the old picture I posted
more my version, actually the same but with windows and not curtains ;)

Offline Prof.Witchheimer

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2009, 10:19:58 AM »
The one on the old pic is very nice but looks to me a bit too antiquated for the 1900-1917, even with windows.

and more pics..

former user

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Re: Question : Russian Railway 1900-1920
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2009, 10:40:20 AM »
surely
but you have to keep in mind that royal trains were used for propaganda too
so even when new carriages were bought, the old ones were still used, of course not for long journeys in winter (as is reported for the british royal train)

so let's see
the old pic is from around 1875 or earlier I guess
(imagine a nice trip from petrograd to moscow or zarskoye selo in the hot summer, people in petrograd throwing their hats in the air on departure, the Romanows waving on route to the peasants in the field, who in turn drop on their knees  :))
then came the newer train on your pics and on the accident pics
clearly two types, one with these "chimneys" (russian?), and pullmans
then came the accident 1888
and the the expensive german carriages from 1897

history in a pocket

 

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