Burgundian livery coats and companies

[GulKelan]

Found these illustrations about Burgundian livery coats from a guy called  александр on Pinterest.
(Here is the Link to his Profile: https://www.pinterest.de/dracond69/_saved/)




The problem is that the explanations are in russian.

I would like to know what kind of companies/ordanance groups or military branches these livery coats are from the burgundian army.
Does someone know and can help?
Any informations would be welcomed.
Cheers

(looks like in the second picture are probably livery coats from household troops of some kind, but would like to have more specific information about them)

[Atheling]

Is it the army of Charles the Bold you are looking for information for?

If so might I suggest you buy a copy (nice and cheap) of The Burgundian Army of Charles the Bold, Pat McGill, Armand Pacou & Rod E. Riddell which had the full panoply of liveries, standards, heraldic banners, badges etc etc etc.

Available from the Lance and Longbow Society here:
https://lanceandlongbow.com/shopPublications.php

[GulKelan]

Thanks for the reply.
I have that book already. defenatly great book.
But i was looking to get information about these liveries.

[Charlie_]

Interesting... I've seen these before, and lots of other similar illustrations with Russian text.... I've assumed they are from some sort of Russian equivalent to Osprey books? They do seem pretty good, I'd love to find out more.

[Atheling]

Thanks for the reply.
I have that book already. defenatly great book.
But i was looking to get information about these liveries.

Right, I was trying to suss out what Burgundian army you were looking for.

From memory I think some of the liveries you have posted are featured in the in Montlhery 1465, Louis XI face a la Ligue du Bien Public, published by Historic'one

I bought my copy on Amazon but it is available direct from the publisher here:
http://www.historic-one.com/bataille/montlhery.htm

No 4 is almost certainly an archer in the retinue of Charles, comte de Charolais.

[HappyChappy439]

Ah! I ran into those images before on a Facebook page, they're illustrations by an artist called Andrey Kurkin

A lot of his depictions are taken from text descriptions (there's a few Hundred Years War ones he did as well for John the Fearless' bodyguards), but in the top one they're basically all taken from The Mémoires of Jean de Haynin during the Battle of Montlhéry and the Liège war

1. Livery of the Lord of Hames (who doesn't get named in the Mémoires)
2. Livery of the archers of Philippe de Crévecoeur
3. Livery of the archers of Antoine de Rolin (in the same colours as the generic Burgundian livery under Duke Charles the Bold and the Count of Ravenstein after 1467)
4. Livery of Jean de Rubempré
5. Livery of the archers of Louis de Gruuthuse
6. Livery of the household archers of Louis de Luxembourg, count of Saint-Pol
7. Livery of the household archers of Jean de Luxembourg-Soissons, count of Marle
8. Livery of the Count of Ravenstein (during Montlhéry in 1465, although the caption says something different)

And in the second image you're correct, those are household troops for the dukes of Burgundy (and Charles the Bold as Count of Nevers), although there's more examples that I'm not familiar with, from other sources than Jean de Haynin from what I can tell. My best-guess for the items there are:

1. One of Philip the Good's household "archers du corps"
2. Not sure on the second standing figure, I've not run into ducal bodyguards wearing red livery before!
3. Another livery for Philip the Good's archers (with "P" and "I" for Philippe and Isabella embroidered on either side of the chest)
4. Livery for Charles the Bold's archers du corps during the battle of Montlhéry in 1465 (with C & I embroidered on either side for Charles and Isabella)
5. Not sure on this one, the silver fusil symbols are consistent with Philip the Good's livery badge, but I've not run into a description that mentions purple before, it could be a variant or a different company of archers under Philip
6. Livery for Charles the Bold's archers du corps in the very short window between 1465 and 1467 before he became duke, but after he married Mary of York
7. Livery of Philip the Good's archers du corps in his personal grey/black livery
8. Not sure on this one, it would be for Charles the Bold after he married Mary of York, but I've not found a description with purple cloth and silver embroidery (there's purple + gold in 1473, so this could be similar?)
9. A Livery of Charles the Bold's archers du corps after 1467
10. Not sure on this one either, the colours match up with after Charles the Bold became duke in 1467, but the cross is gold, and the 'skirt' is different, I've not found a description like that
11. A standard for the English archers under Charles the Bold (not sure what company or whether they were specifically household archers though)
12. A standard of Charles the Bold after 1465
13. A standard for the English archers under Charles the Bold (not sure what company or whether they were specifically household archers though)
14. A standard for a company of archers under Charles the Bold after 1467

Hopefully that helps a little bit! Apologies for the uncertainty on the second image though! If anyone has more information I'd definitely be grateful to hear about the mystery liveries there!

[GulKelan]

wow thank you guys so much!
thats so awesome you found out!


i was thinking to make them as decals to put them on the troops so you dont have to freehand like 100 or so...

here are 2 more if someone needs...

again thanks alot!

[GulKelan]

Chappy, it is really impressive your knowledge.


i red in the "armies of Medieval Burgundy 1364-1477" from osprey that the "chef de escarde" had to wear a bannerrole on his sallet.

is my thinking correct that there has ben 4 "chef de escarde"  with banerole on the sallet per company/ for four squadrons?

did one company consisted of four squadrons in total?

The company leader didnt wear a banerole on the helmet?

[fantasticlegions]

Ah! I ran into those images before on a Facebook page, they're illustrations by an artist called Andrey Kurkin

Any idea whether all this art is for books?  I see bits and pieces of it here and there, and would love to find the whole sources.

[Doom Beard 78]

The red livery jacket with white saltire cross are the guard archers serving Anthone Charles' half brother

[Atheling]

The red livery jacket with white saltire cross are the guard archers serving Anthone Charles' half brother

From the Battle of Montlhery era, right George?

[Ronin1978]

Salve.
Ce ne sono diverse su Pinterest ma non ho mai capito che rivista era .

[HappyChappy439]

Chappy, it is really impressive your knowledge.


i red in the "armies of Medieval Burgundy 1364-1477" from osprey that the "chef de escarde" had to wear a bannerrole on his sallet.

is my thinking correct that there has ben 4 "chef de escarde"  with banerole on the sallet per company/ for four squadrons?

did one company consisted of four squadrons in total?

The company leader didnt wear a banerole on the helmet?

Aw thanks! I've been working on a Montlhéry 1465 project for the last couple of years (on and off), so I've run into a few of these sources before, happy to share what I've found!

Not sure with the rules around bannerroles though, Charles the Bold was normally very specific on his rules on uniforms with the Ordonnance companies once those get established though, so if a quote exists, it's probably got a basis somewhere! Not sure how that factors into the organisation of "Lances" in the companies though

Any idea whether all this art is for books?  I see bits and pieces of it here and there, and would love to find the whole sources.

Salve.
Ce ne sono diverse su Pinterest ma non ho mai capito che rivista era .

I've not been able to track down the full texts, but after some digging around (mostly through Google Translate and copy-pasting Cyrillic characters to get "Andrey Kurkin Burgundy") it looks like some of the work was published in a series of Russian Language books/magazines called "Parabellum Novum," with a few issues focusing on Burgundian battles. There's also a series of research papers on Academia.Edu under his name, but I don't have an account so I've not downloaded the texts themselves to actually check (again, most are in Russian though)