West German Panzer Division ORBATS mid 1980s

[SJWi]

Jemima, thanks for the info on the M113G and the Fuchs.  I've seen photos of the Fuchs with MILAN but never the M113. I also got confused between Fuchs and Luchs when you posted, and spent 15 minutes trying to find MILAN mounted on the 8-wheeled armoured car!

[Jemima Fawr]

Jemima, thanks for the info on the M113G and the Fuchs.  I've seen photos of the Fuchs with MILAN but never the M113. I also got confused between Fuchs and Luchs when you posted, and spent 15 minutes trying to find MILAN mounted on the 8-wheeled armoured car!

Yeah, been there... 

As for the M113G & MILAN combo, there's even a flippin photo of it in my own document! Memory's not what it was...

[SJWi]

Jemima. So there is! Thanks for pointing it out.

[ichwillauch]

Organisation of "Heeresstruktur 4" for a "Panzergrenadierbrigade"
https://forum.steelbeasts.org/forum/board/103-heeresstruktur-4/

If I remember right, some brigades hadn't all the listed vehicles, for example
https://forum.steelbeasts.org/forum/thread/7627-panzerbataillon-gemischt/

KfzTrp/Kette remove the Leos
San Trp: only 1 MTW not three, no Man Truck
S1, S2, S3, S4 & TrVerw no VW-Bus only Iltis, maybe three or four

[Ursus Maior]

Mixed Panzer Battalions had a platoon of 3 (?) M125 81mm mortar carriers.

To my knowledge, none of the "mixed" battalions had any mortar carriers ("Panzermörser"). Certainly, no M125 were fielded, as the Bundeswehr never introduced them and indeed never used 81 mm mortars. The only mortar carriers used in West Germany were M113 Panzermörser 120 mm, based on the M113A2,  but reinvigorated from 2001 onwards (NDV2).

[Ursus Maior]

Oh, I checked and MILAN could be mounted on the M113G (as well as the Fuchs, in the case of the Recce Bns). 

As was the case e. g. in the Panzergrenadierbataillone of the Panzergrenadierbrigaden where the third Panzergrenadierkompanie (4th company, as German tradition is to count the HHC as 1st company) rode in M113A1G. As these had, in comparison to SPz Marder, no autocannon, far less armor and just a single MG3, each M113 was equipped with a Milan ATGM, cf. https://forum.steelbeasts.org/forum/thread/7665-panzergrenadierbataillon-pzgrenbrig/.

This was different in the other two companies, where only two Marder were Milan-equipped with the third vehicle, carrying the Zugtrupp (PHQ) not equipped with such a system.

[Ursus Maior]

Jemima, thanks for the info on the M113G and the Fuchs.  I've seen photos of the Fuchs with MILAN but never the M113. I also got confused between Fuchs and Luchs when you posted, and spent 15 minutes trying to find MILAN mounted on the 8-wheeled armoured car!

Tests with Milan on M113 started in 1978 or so. Here is a video about that, at about 1:20 min you can see the M113 in all its glory.

[Rick]

I'm a big fan of Mark Bevis' Micromark army lists sheets from Wargame Vault - affordable (£1 - £1.50 each usually) and pretty accurate, on the whole. I've downloaded quite a few of them covering the cold war and up to 2000 - they generally cover the core units (tank, infantry and recce, with company/battalion assets) on one sheet and a seperate sheet covering brigade - corps level support on another. If you download the free notes and catalogue sheets that'll give you an idea of what to look for.