Russo-Swedish War of 1808-1809 or "Finnish War"

[armchairgeneral]

The only problem with the Perry brothers is that they didn't have any mounted commands, so I'll wait or I'll find a commander from another nation who can do the job.

Besides, I don't have much choice in terms of cavalry. What do you recommend I take? 

Eagle Miniatures also do Napoleonic Swedes including mounted officers and more cavalry options

https://eaglefigures.co.uk/28mm-napoleonic-swedes/cavalry-mounted-officersgenerals/

[Calvin59]

Thank you very much Armchairgeneral for the Eagle website. Do you know if these are compatible with the Perry Miniatures ones? 

[Swampking]

I gave the Swedish flags to Maverick-Models a couple of years ago - glad to see they're finally on the site.

I've got most books on the conflict (in Swedish, Finnish and Russian). While 28mm isn't my scale, you might want to take a look at this blog:

https://25yearsofminis.blogspot.com/2016/10/russo-swedish-war-1808-1809-first-finns.html

It'll give you some idea of conversions using Perry Miniatures and what else is available in your scale.

[Calvin59]

Thanks Swampking for the link, which I will check out at the end of my message to you. 

[traveller]

Thank you again for your suggestions. After looking at the various battles on Wikipedia, I settled on two regiments: Uppland and Västmaland. What do you think?

The only problem with the Perry brothers is that they didn't have any mounted commands, so I'll wait or I'll find a commander from another nation who can do the job.

Besides, I don't have much choice in terms of cavalry. What do you recommend I take? 

If you want two Swedish Line Regiments these are as good as any. Luckily the uniforms of these two regiments were recently researched by the Army Museum which changed what was known earlier. According to their regimental history they used the 1798 uniform model with lapels in the Finnish War but now we know that these were altered into coats of the 1806 type with only one row of buttons like the Perry miniatures have. If you decide on these, I can give you more details later on.
Due to the forest terrain of Finland, this was an infantry war and cavalry was mostly used only for scouting and couriers. However, the Carelia dragoons offered by Perry is a good, and almost, your only choice.
Personally I am quite intrigued by the irregular warfare that went on between Finnish militia and Russians:

[Calvin59]

Thank you again, Traveller, for your suggestions and photos. After reading everything that was sent, I'm going to focus on the two regiments from Uppland and Västmaland for the infantry and the cavalry, in order to make the reconnaissance a dragoon unit.

It's true that in my reading, there are also militia units, but in terms of figures, I'm not sure where to look? Or maybe I could get some Perry National Guard figures (FN145 and FN146), or even some figures from the American Revolutionary War... But before that, I'll focus on the infantry.

If you have uniform sheets for the two regiments I've chosen, I would be grateful.

[traveller]

Here is a quick summary for the infantry based on the research in the book "Kronans kläder" (2010) by Armemuseum. This is a very good example on how the actual dress differ from any regulations and drawings available:
   
Each battalion also had a Jäger platoon of around 50 men. These were the youngest and most agile men who also were good marksmen. They were supposed to have rifles but usually had the same smoothbore muskets as the rest of the line infantry. Regulation also prescribed a little different uniform but the difference usually only was that they maybe had a green plume, In some cases a green collar and black leather belts. The regulation battalion formation is as follows with jägers fanning out into a screen with 3 meters between each man:




Please let me know if you want the flags for these regiments as well. I think I can find the ones relevant for 1808-1809(which are also usually not according to regulation...)

Regarding militia, I personally take great pleasure in searching for, and/or converting, miniatures for irregular units. The ones you propose are very good options. A long shirt or light coat is what you are looking for. The AWI range militia packs have several useful figures. Dismounted cossacks, maybe with a change of head can also be used. Wargames Foundry has some very nice ones sculpted by Copplestone. The Perry Napoleonic Russians can also be useful:

https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/rn-57-angry-armed-peasants-attacking/
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/rn-58-armed-peasants-some-with-captured-weapons/

Make sure you stay clear of any tricorns. The Finnish irregulars would be bareheaded or use slouch hats, Swedish army hats, knitted caps or skull caps as can be seen in the images above.

[Calvin59]

Many thanks to you, Traveller, for the information you provided. Of course, I thought it would be a good idea for the Finnish militia or irregulars not to wear tricorns, as this fashion was outdated.

Perhaps by then the Perry brothers will expand the Swedish range, as I find them to be the poor relation compared to the Danish.

I ordered a few packs of Swedish infantry from Perry a few days ago, as well as bases from another manufacturer, so for now I'm technically unemployed. But thanks to my request on the forum, I have a lot to read and take note of for the painting part.

Now I just need to find the colors of the Uppland Regiment's flag online, so I can add this emblem when I'm finished painting the figures.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge of this period with me again. 

[traveller]

In Sweden the tricorne never went out of fashion  Swedish infantry 1915:


I was in contact with Perry regarding the Swedish Napoleonics and they will expand with infantry in greatcoats which will be great for the winter battles of the war 1808-1809.

BTW, re your need for mounted command, I would say that any officer with a greatcoat and bicorne would do. I personally use some Perry French officers.

The infantry regiments should, according to regulations have, four flags. The 1st battalion had one Colonels color and one company color. The 2nd battalion had two company colors. The flag pattern during this war was usually the 1766 pattern. I am sure I can send you some details on these in a day or two.
Personally I use cased flags (from Steve Barber) with my regiments. In reality flags were seldome unfurled. They stayed in camp or in the baggage train. In a skirmish game flags are rather useless unless you use them as an objective 

[Calvin59]

Yes, it's truly surprising to still find troops wearing tricorn hats in 1915. Sometimes certain fashions resurface decades later. For France, a few years before the First World War, a helmet was proposed that looked a bit like a dragoon helmet, but a little more compact.
Thanks for the information from the Perry brothers, but I suspected that one day they would expand the range of their Swedish figurines. Now we have to be patient, because you never know when it might come out.
I see that they're keeping the same number of flags as in previous centuries. For the French and the Empire, only one flag or eagle per regiment. Is this a problem with raw materials or to avoid multiplying the emblems per unit?
For the flags, do you recommend Steve Barber? I went to their website, and they do have flags for the Uppland Regiment, but for 1813. I know I want to play skirmish, but it's always very nice to see the colors on a gaming table. Besides, I haven't seen a royal flag.
Thank you again for all your knowledge that you're kind enough to share. 

[traveller]

Flags were expensive items and the Kingdom of Sweden was a poor country. I guess also as the infantry tactics changed there were no longer any heroic charges with colors flying so the need for flags was more for ceremonial purposes.

I have not seen any flags from Steve Barber but they have some quite useful accessories as flag finials and cased flags. Do you have a link to their Uppland flag?:
https://www.stevebarbermodels.com/store/Napoleonic-Accessories-c36555049

Here are the company flags for Uppland, the real one and Rawkins drawing:


Dalauppror also have made one on his great site:
https://dalauppror.blogspot.com/2021/05/uppland-regiment-1808.html
He also have the Colonels flag but it lacks the emblem in the top left corner

Here are the same for Västmanland. I am not sure on the color of the mountains on the Rawkins drawing. The blue is from an earlier model I think:


The Colonels color is the same as Uppland but with the Västmanland mountain emblem in the top left corner.
You wanted the royal banner as well?

[Calvin59]

Thank you again for the photos of the different flags. Yes, I was familiar with Steve Barber's accessories, but the same accessories are also available at Gripping Beast, formerly Front Rank. Since you're suggesting it, I'd really like the royal banner.

I think that with all the information you've kindly shared with me, I'll be able to make decent miniatures and thus have a good tabletop in a while.

Could I ask if there was a cavalry regiment and which one, if my opponent fielded cavalry himself? Because on a blog, I saw that there were Russian hussar units.

I also imagine that the tabletop must be filled with trees and vegetation? 

[Calvin59]

Another quick question, can I take this reference (SWED4) for light infantry or jägers ? 

[traveller]

Thank you again for the photos of the different flags. Yes, I was familiar with Steve Barber's accessories, but the same accessories are also available at Gripping Beast, formerly Front Rank. Since you're suggesting it, I'd really like the royal banner.

I think that with all the information you've kindly shared with me, I'll be able to make decent miniatures and thus have a good tabletop in a while.

Could I ask if there was a cavalry regiment and which one, if my opponent fielded cavalry himself? Because on a blog, I saw that there were Russian hussar units.

I also imagine that the tabletop must be filled with trees and vegetation? 

The Swedish king Gustav IV Adolf was not a warrior king. The only time he visited any of the battlegrounds during the Napoleonic Wars was in Swedish Pomerania 1805-1806. He never went to Finland in 1808-1809. There are no Royal banner known that would be brought to the field. If there was one, it would most like be white with the kings weapon shield in the center:



I just realize that the OOB for the Battle of Oravais above was partly in Swedish  so please ask if it was unclear. If you want to make a scenario based on Oravais the Swedish army had 2 cavalry units:

Life guard (2 squadrons)
Karelian dragoons (1 squadron) - Perry have these. Their uniform 1808:



The Russians had:
Grodno husarregiment (3 squadrons). https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Hussar_regiment?file=Husaren-Regt_Grodno-1812.jpg
Don cossacks(100 men)
Polish Lancer regiment(1 squadron)

The Finnish landscape mostly consists of forest and lakes but around Oravais there were also open fields and some barns and a church

[traveller]

Another quick question, can I take this reference (SWED4) for light infantry or jägers ? 

No, as I wrote above, the Jäger platoon in the Line regiment were mostly dressed like the rest of the infantry, maybe only with a green plume and sometimes green collar and turnbacks.