How big are Warmaster ogres, and how many go on a base (+ troll considerations)?

[Hobgoblin]

A rummage in the lead pile revealed a couple of potential troll options: old Citadel lesser goblins (the 'great goblin' sort - maybe a bit small, even though they're 28mm?) and Caesar 1/72 goblins - a bit bigger and suitably mad looking, with rocks and stone clubs.

[Hobgoblin]

So I now have a few troll options - and will probably use several of them to get a good variety of trolls of different sorts on the table:

Asgard orcs
The smaller ones will go three to a 40mm base and look suitably intimidating - and as if they're intimidating small foes, given their stooping posture! Configuring nine of them on three bases might be slightly tricky, but I won't be confined to just the very smallest: I got a menacing-looking trio on a 40 x 20 with this guy (the armoured black orc) in the centre:



This tracker orc showcases the 'attacking tiny foes' aspect:



The other nice thing is that they'll make very ferocious-looking warband or blade elements in 15mm - and the elements can be used together to create suitably congested-looking 28mm hordes for To the Strongest and other such games (I've been meaning to try Impetus for ages, and it allows 40mm and 60mm frontages to be used together to create 120mm elements).

Caesar goblins
These guys have the zaniness - and the ears - of later GW trolls. They'll happily go three to a base, and they have some hefty stone hammers and rocks. They're not exactly ferocious-looking, but they're probably big enough to work as trolls (they're quite a bit bigger than snotlings):




Caesar orcs (the first box)
These could also work well, I think. The second box contains better sculpts, but they're also much more civilised-looking whereas these guys are goofy and primitive:




I also have the Caesar/Miniknight metal versions, which are even more primitive looking/more troll-like, with some big clubs and whatnot.

And along with those are the Copplestone trolls, with their Olog-hai vibe. The Caesar orcs are almost exactly the same size, but with their varied posture and lack of shields, they should be easier to fit three to a base for mass effect.

I also found some further ogre options in the 1/72 pile: Dark Alliance warg riders as further rhinox proxies (as the Blood Dawn/Magister Militia boar riders are out of production, sadly) and the second box of Caesar orcs as ogre personalities or different tribes of regular ogres. The Caesar figure are much easier to convert than most 1/72 figures, as they take superglue (and paint) well and can be cut and drilled with ease. So there's a fair bit of scope there.

Finally, I have some of the Pendraken (Harryhausen-style) troglodytes on order. I think they might work well as either trolls or ogre 'gorgers'.

And, of course, all of these elements will work as 15mm blades or warbands for HOTT, which should help the project along.

[BeneathALeadMountain]

Just seen that giant on your blog (itself a treasure trove of inspirational painting!): it's brilliant!

Thank you sir, too kind. I need to start posting again (even if only a handful of people ever looked at it!) as it was helpful in maintaining motivation when I can’t play anything. Haven’t checked in a while but had stalled as I only have an iPad and the blogger system wouldn’t let me see what I was typing until I published or looked at a preview (which was understandably quite hard going).

Back to topic: Apologies, had a couple of rough days and I haven’t been able to get to my ogres (I think I can see where they are  - gives you an idea of why I call it my lead mountain!) but I think Fred has answered your question really.  The official GW ogres are wide but quite shallow (you could probably do 5 in a conga line along a 20x40mm base - as long as they were friends and didn’t mind getting close ). I also have some printed ones in the style of the newer GW ogres and these are much chunkier and almost fill a 20x20mm base (where you could technically put two old ones on a 20x20mm - again without any social distancing! Maybe back to back?).

Just found this picture on CMoN which has four on a base


Those Asgard orcs are great, I agree with your comments about pose - I think they’ll look perfect based up, looming over the poor rank and file. I really like the Caesar minis (haven’t seen them before) especially the orcs, I would have loved adding them to my Airfix 1/72’s when little as they would have made my ACW skirmishes much more interesting! I really love the fact these will be used for multiple scales - so practical and sensible, wish I’d applied this idea to more of my projects.

Keep up the good work,

Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain

[Hobgoblin]

Thank you sir, too kind. I need to start posting again (even if only a handful of people ever looked at it!) as it was helpful in maintaining motivation when I can’t play anything. Haven’t checked in a while but had stalled as I only have an iPad and the blogger system wouldn’t let me see what I was typing until I published or looked at a preview (which was understandably quite hard going).

Blogger's a pain, definitely. But it would be terrific to see more of your stuff - those 10mm stuff are just stunning!

Back to topic: Apologies, had a couple of rough days and I haven’t been able to get to my ogres (I think I can see where they are  - gives you an idea of why I call it my lead mountain!) but I think Fred has answered your question really.  The official GW ogres are wide but quite shallow (you could probably do 5 in a conga line along a 20x40mm base - as long as they were friends and didn’t mind getting close ). I also have some printed ones in the style of the newer GW ogres and these are much chunkier and almost fill a 20x20mm base (where you could technically put two old ones on a 20x20mm - again without any social distancing! Maybe back to back?).

Just found this picture on CMoN which has four on a base

Brilliant - thanks very much! Yes, those and Fred's post clear things up nicely. They are remarkably flat/shallow.

Those Asgard orcs are great, I agree with your comments about pose - I think they’ll look perfect based up, looming over the poor rank and file. I really like the Caesar minis (haven’t seen them before) especially the orcs, I would have loved adding them to my Airfix 1/72’s when little as they would have made my ACW skirmishes much more interesting! I really love the fact these will be used for multiple scales - so practical and sensible, wish I’d applied this idea to more of my projects.

Using miniatures in different scales is a bit of a preoccupation for me. I've got some Grenadier goblins on the desk at the moment, based as 15mm trolls ('great beasts') for DBF. They're quite a bit bigger and chunkier than the Asgard ones.

The newer Caesar orcs are really good - less good as trolls, but with lots of ogre potential in smaller scales and decent as small orcs in larger ones (as above, pictures from Plastic Soldier Review):

[fred]

Using miniatures in different scales is a bit of a preoccupation for me.

Really

Can't say we'd noticed! Reading the above I'm quite lost on how many games you are planning to use the same figures for! Which is great efficiency

[Hobgoblin]

Really

Can't say we'd noticed! Reading the above I'm quite lost on how many games you are planning to use the same figures for! Which is great efficiency

Ha!   

I do like to hop between game systems quite a bit; when you have basing-agnostic games like To the Strongest and Of Armies and Hordes to fall back on, nothing's wasted!

Also, I'm increasingly looking for ways to use up huge chunks of the lead/plastic pile. I'm trying to banish any feelings of "Oh no, base those individually as they're such good minatures" and instead just get things based and painted for whatever use case presents itself. The Asgard orcs are a case in point here (and it helps that they're now readily available again rather than being precious rariities!).

[Hobgoblin]

I started painting some original Warmaster orcs last night - just one strip, which I got about half-done.

On the efficiency front, I noted that they'd work perfectly well as HOTT/DBF hordes in 15mm: they're quite bulky and look about 4' tall or so next to 15mm figures - bang on for D&D goblins (or Tolkien's orcs, I'd imagine). The Copplestone orcs look the part in 15mm too - and it helps that two Warmaster bases will give a really credible mass effect - making the goblins very clearly 'hordes' rather than warband or anything else.

It's always a challenge to assemble enough hordes for Hordes of the Things, as they take much more effort than regular elements but cost only half as much in points. But every two units of Warmaster orcs will give me three HOTT hordes, so there's a nice double incentive to crack on with the little fellows there.

Putting the Copplestone orcs against the Warmaster ones, I thought the former really do look the part as 'proper' Citadel hobgoblins: ferocious Morrison/Lund sorts rather than the lesser breeds that followed!

I aslo received some of the Pendraken 10mm troglodytes yesterday: I think they'll be great as ogre "gorgers", as they're a great match size-wise for the Battle Valor orcs (my ogres) but savage and primitive-looking with horns.

[fred]

Interesting idea to use the Copplestone Orcs as hobgoblins - I've got piles of GW and Copplestone Orcs that I've never really got put together as an army - the link above is probably from 15 years ago, and not sure I've done more than a couple more units since then.

The Pendraken troglodytes would work well as ogre gorgers, they are slightly static poses though, but I do like them.

If you want variety to your Ogres then have a look at Blackgate - some lovely ogres and variants to cover the various 'sub-species'

Do you have the 10mm Copplstone Olag hai - they are designed to fit 4 to a 40x20mm base, but are quite different, more basic in their appearance.

[Hobgoblin]

Interesting idea to use the Copplestone Orcs as hobgoblins - I've got piles of GW and Copplestone Orcs that I've never really got put together as an army - the link above is probably from 15 years ago, and not sure I've done more than a couple more units since then.

Yes, I think they should look the part - and old-school hobgoblins would definitely be identical to orcs stat-wise in Warmaster terms (S3, T4, etc., in Warhammer). I'll use the flat brown/orange brown/sunny flesh combo I'm using on the ogres/15mm orcs for those, which allow them to fit in as lesser, horde orcs in the 15mm games. There's something about the Copplestone orcs that makes them 'read' well in 15mm - maybe just the clarity of the sculpting.

If you want variety to your Ogres then have a look at Blackgate - some lovely ogres and variants to cover the various 'sub-species'

Thanks - that's a good call. They look quite similar size-wise to the Battle Valor orcs, judging by the comparison shot I've seen with a Blood Dawn orc; the latter was bulkier and squatter, which is petty much the same deal with BD vs BV. I might look at Blackgate for the leadbelchers in particular; the alternative would just be to use BV archers, which would be doable in a pinch but not quite right, given the rare 'shooting 2' score, short range and armour modifier (although ogre arrows would be massive ...).

Do you have the 10mm Copplstone Olag hai - they are designed to fit 4 to a 40x20mm base, but are quite different, more basic in their appearance.

Yes - I used to use them in a 15mm HOTT army, but I could only manage two to a base. I suppose they could just about squash up one behind the other - would look a bit cramped, probably - although I suppose that would be the same as the original Warmaster ogres.